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 Post subject: Re: COACHING for TGF's BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS | October 201

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MI wrote:
The trigger control: I felt i was anticipating the weapon to fire and i had to deliberately tell my brain not to worry about the recoil, SA/HMR told me counter this issue by exhaling when pulling the trigger and that too in a smooth motion and to give my arm a rest after every shot.

Slight correction here MI. We do exhale while aligning the sights and bringing the trigger to it's post-travel stage, but, we hold our breath for five to six seconds while sqeeeezing the trigger which leads to the surprise break.

MI wrote:
SA: Thank you for a very well organized event, oh and on a light note, sell me the 75 D :)..

Dream on. :D

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 Post subject: Re: COACHING for TGF's BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS | October 201

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Noted Saif bro and KBW shb. Will try to remember to shoot on the blank paper next time.


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 Post subject: Re: COACHING for TGF's BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS | October 201

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It was a wonderful day, however, repeating known mistakes was kind of frustrating for self as well as the coach, for some reason cant control my mind not to flinch :doh:, I think I was maintaining the stance as in competition day, dont know if it works for me or should I switch to basic parallel to target

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:handgestures-salute: to seniors for taking their time out and sharing the knowledge with others


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 Post subject: Re: COACHING for TGF's BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS | October 201

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@KBW, sir, thank you, i think i understand what you mean, will be trying this out to learn my natural stance, SA had suggested something similar.. today the guns after the session were field stripped/oiled/greased so giving them some rest :)..


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 Post subject: Re: COACHING for TGF's BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS | October 201

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my third range session today:

found saif a very good shooter as well as a very good teacher.
GP, HMR, SA, all are very nice people and co operative.

will try to visit range twice in a month.

@ kbw, advice noted.

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 Post subject: Re: COACHING for TGF's BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS | October 201

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had a wounder full and gr8 experience at ASCC with you guys. Thanks a lot seniors for teaching and helping me! I enjoyed and learned a lot. It was my first experience with TGF's seniors, and it was gr8.
Every one was very kind and co-operative. Have to practice more and more. Can't took the pic of my targets so seniors can tell me about my mistakes, but I'll next time INSHAH-ALLAH.
If Shariq bhai remember my performance please guide me, how can I make it better?

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 Post subject: Re: COACHING for TGF's BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS | October 201

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It is very commendable that TGF management is making serious efforts to promote Shooting Sports in Karachi and number of members are increasing day by day :)


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 Post subject: Re: COACHING for TGF's BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS | October 201

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asif ali wrote:
It is very commendable that TGF management is making serious efforts to promote Shooting Sports in Karachi and number of members are increasing day by day :)

Thanks Asif. The objective has always been to share knowledge, create an environment of learning and help raise skill levels of members. Increasing number of members has never been the focus.

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 Post subject: Re: COACHING for TGF's BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS | October 201

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@isk
I would advise to switch to isosceles stance. It is the most relaxed and balanced stance.

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 Post subject: Re: COACHING for TGF's BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS | October 201

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@SA: Thanks for the appreciation. Actually when I came back home I saw the pics posted by you and I was so proud that I rectified a long time error that I couldn't stop looking at the pictures. It feels good o see positive results and that the time, energy, effort and money that one is investing are all paying off. Your efforts in coaching and then with the photography so that we can obtain more feedback are highly appreciated.

@KBW bro: You're absolutely right regarding by neck stance and body stance. Actually before shooting I conveyed the same thing to SA and the first thing which he told me to do was to find my natural stance and guess what ? My natural stance as discovered by myself on that day was left leg forward and upper body a bit forward. The same stance was recommended by you in your earlier post and after returning when I read your post I instantly knew I was heading in the right direction. I was also asked by SA to relax and perhaps sing a song. I did "Summer of 69" (humming) and instantly the world around me was shut LOL.

If you could notice from my targets that the flinching problem is gone but now I am shooting a bit to the right. SA and myself worked on the same and Inshallah during my second class I will rectify that too.

To all the beginners who took the coaching session: Since most of us give long gaps between range sessions it is a suggestion that A) We increase our range visits and B) Make notes (as done myself) of all the pointers given by the seniors so that the notes remain fresh in our minds and we can visit them whenever we want. Lastly I did some dry firing keeping SA's pointers in mind and it helped me, so do practice safe dry firing.

To all the beginners who DID NOT avail this opportunity: It's never too late to learn

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 Post subject: Re: COACHING for TGF's BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS | October 201

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Furrukh bro - Very good point of making notes. I remember myself making notes about basic shooting techniques which KBW shb advised to me in my shooting threads and tried to read it before visiting range. That helped certainly. But one tends to forget what was shared unless practice much remembering each time.

My learning point of my last two range visits is:
- Concentrate on each shot for basics
- Surprise break (not jerking)
- aiming the handgun to the intended POA and let the hand sway squeezing the trigger
- must take some break between shots


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 Post subject: Re: COACHING for TGF's BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS | October 201

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@ Furrukh,

All I can say to you is, well done, stay motivated and InshaAllah very soon your shooting will improve immensely.

Wajeeh Hasan wrote:
I remember myself making notes about basic shooting techniques which KBW shb advised to me in my shooting threads and tried to read it before visiting range. That helped certainly.


It certainly does and we all can see how quickly (MashaAllah) you've progressed. :)

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 Post subject: Re: COACHING for TGF's BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS | October 201

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Wajeeh Hasan wrote:
Furrukh bro - Very good point of making notes. I remember myself making notes about basic shooting techniques which KBW shb advised to me in my shooting threads and tried to read it before visiting range. That helped certainly. But one tends to forget what was shared unless practice much remembering each time.

My learning point of my last two range visits is:
- Concentrate on each shot for basics
- Surprise break (not jerking)
- aiming the handgun to the intended POA and let the hand sway squeezing the trigger
- must take some break between shots


Bro please elaborate. If we let the hand sway post acquiring the POA won't that effect the POI ? that or I'm understanding your statement incorrectly....

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 Post subject: Re: COACHING for TGF's BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS | October 201

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I think what Wajeeh is implying here is not to concentrate on the target, let it go blur, don't put in conscious effort in keeping your front sight right at the bull, but rather, instead of putting any stress on your arms to keep the front sight on bull, keep your focus on the front sight and squeeeezing of trigger.

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 Post subject: Re: COACHING for TGF's BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS | October 201

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Furrukh wrote:
If you could notice from my targets that the flinching problem is gone but now I am shooting a bit to the right. SA and myself worked on the same and Inshallah during my second class I will rectify that too.
Please check if you are pushing unnecessarily with the back of the palm of your left (non-firing) hand.

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 Post subject: Re: COACHING for TGF's BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS | October 201

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KBW wrote:
Furrukh wrote:
If you could notice from my targets that the flinching problem is gone but now I am shooting a bit to the right. SA and myself worked on the same and Inshallah during my second class I will rectify that too.
Please check if you are pushing unnecessarily with the back of the palm of your left (non-firing) hand.


I am just letting my firing hand rest on my non-firing hand. I think I am applying a bit pressure via the web and the index finger of my firing palm instead.

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 Post subject: Re: COACHING for TGF's BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS | October 201

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I strongly recommend all aspiring shooters to please thoroughly read this thread and then ask questions here

The Discipline of Precision or Bulls Eye Shooting (Pistol)
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31

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 Post subject: Re: COACHING for TGF's BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS | October 201

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alitaurus wrote:
had a wounder full and gr8 experience at ASCC with you guys. Thanks a lot seniors for teaching and helping me! I enjoyed and learned a lot. It was my first experience with TGF's seniors, and it was gr8.
Every one was very kind and co-operative. Have to practice more and more. Can't took the pic of my targets so seniors can tell me about my mistakes, but I'll next time INSHAH-ALLAH.
If HMR remembers my performance please guide me, how can I make it better?


Dear Ali
You shot quite well for a novice shooter. Your gun is not properly zeroed but it should not deter you. Next time just shoot on a blank paper and mark each 5 shot group to measure group size. Don't worry about point of aim as our eyes automatically calculate and aim at the center of blank.
For correct technique please read the following link.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31


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 Post subject: Re: COACHING for TGF's BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS | October 201

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@All

Below are couple of targets posted just to show the kind of practice that one can do to improve his shooting basics. First target is shot by me. I intentionally aimed 6 o'clock (red plus mark) in order to avoid the bull / scoring on the target because I just wanted to concentrate on groups and not on scoring. I was also not bothered whether the gun is shooting right or left because it does not effect the group.

I shot 35 shots in 7 strings of 5 shots each, one after the other, from a distance of 30 m with both hands. Here is the target....

Image
The point of aim is red plus mark (which was drawn after shooting). First two groups are ok. Than there is lapse of concentration in third group and from 3", group goes to over 7". Than there is a mediocre groups followed by another large size group. The last two groups are also ok. I would have actually practiced on a white sheet but that was not available and the reverse side of these targets has been pasted with newspaper (just to make the paper more thick).

The point to note is, whenever there is a lapse of concentration, the group will be effected. The scores on the other hand might not effect as far as one is in the same ring, even if it happens to be 4" away from the other bullet. But group will be seriously effected. A shooter will only make a good group when he does all the basic things correctly in all the shots that he fires.

When you see it overall, the bigger circle indicates the bulk of shots, ie, 19 shots in 2.7". Than there are few scattered shots but the total spread of 35 shots is 8.1". I should try to bring it down to 6".


Image
Here is Haider shooting from 25 M. I took the pic without informing him. Please note that how relaxed his body is while his shooting elbow is straight and properly locked. The neck is also quite relaxed. He is shooting a firearm after many months since he has only been shooting air pistol and air rifle in the last many months. So the recoil effect was there. In order to regain his shooting skills with firearms which is very different from air pistol, he was told to forget about scoring and concentrate on making small groups. He was not allowed to even count and mark the scores...... just the groups.


Image
The red circles at the bottom have been shot by another shooter. The first measurement is of 4 shot group and second measurement is of 5 shot group.
As you can see, he is making pretty consistent 4 shot groups but 5th shot in almost every string is a little away. He needs to shoot more to regain his concentration and form and I am sure in next few practices he will regain his form. Once he comes down to smaller groups, bringing those shots to the bull area would be no problem. So he has been told to keep his focus on smaller groups..... scores will automatically follow. But this was not a bad fire from 25 m with single hand by a 17 years old. Probably I wouldn't have done better.

The purpose of this post was to highlight the importance of grouping fire. Hope it helps. :)

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 Post subject: Re: COACHING for TGF's BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS | October 201

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Excellent advise Sir.

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 Post subject: Re: COACHING for TGF's BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS | October 201

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Very informative post KBW shb. Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: COACHING for TGF's BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS | October 201

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Most important thing pointed out by KBW Saheb is grouping, which we often forgets and keep concentrating on scoring. A good marksman is that who maintain both, grouping and scoring.


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 Post subject: Re: COACHING for TGF's BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS | October 201

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That is a very good post, KBW sb. And some very good shooting too. I am also impressed with Haider's progress. A few more serious sessions, and he should be in a concentric 4" group category- which again highlights on concentrating thoroughly on the basics, and having focus on making small groups. Scores are just a by-product of groups.

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 Post subject: Re: COACHING for TGF's BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS | October 201

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asif ali wrote:
Most important thing pointed out by KBW Saheb is grouping, which we often forgets and keep concentrating on scoring. A good marksman is that who maintain both, grouping and scoring.
I would put it this way that a good shooter has to be capable of achieving smaller groups; scores are irrelevant and a natural outcome of the capability of making smaller groups.

Let see it like this. If an athlete has tremendous stamina and is capable of running extremely fast (making smaller groups) than its natural outcome would be that if he participates in 100 m race, he is most likely to win it. :)

@Saif
Thanks for the comments. Haider was allowed to shoot that day because he was dying to shoot with a firearm (more precisely his Shadow) as he hadn't shot one since many months. He is forbidden to shoot a firearm at the moment and is concentrating only on Air Pistol / Air Rifle. He is capable of shooting much better than this but he should not shoot a firearm regularly during his training. :)

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 Post subject: Re: COACHING for TGF's BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS | October 201

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SA wrote:
ED's SISTER:

She was probably shooting for the first time in her life and was initially having trouble in gripping the revolver and all her shots were going over the target from even 5 meters. A little coaching with respect to hold to grip the revolver and aligning of sights brought her shots on the target.

Image



Considering the fact that she could not even hit the stand before the coaching session.. thanks to SA bhai she improved enough to get em on paper!! In only 7 shots..

But that's the least of my worries.. Ever since HMR introduced her to the Escort Magnum and SG Buck Shot.. She has no interest in itty bitty pop guns :(

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