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 Post subject: COACHING for TGF's BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS | 2012

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Since the experiences from our 3rd competition are still fresh in our minds I thought that it would be a good idea to post my suggestions / ideas for the next shooting competition, specifically for beginner-level shooters.

I propose a 15m precision shooting event on the same rules as we've had them followed by the Buster Drill for beginners. The buster drill can be of the same distances 15m, 10m and 5m but slight tweaks in the manner in which we carry our rounds in 2 mags 3+6. Participants will carry 3 rounds in one mag which they will shoot at Point A. Then run / jog to point B whilst changing the mag. This second mag will have 6 rounds instead. 3 rounds to be fired from point B and then run / jog to point C and fire the remaining 3 rounds. Time allowed can be 30 seconds. Perhaps here we can also experiment with our previous idea of holding a team based practical shooting event.

Seniors can give live / real life suggestions to the errors in shooting technique. Something which I personally would like.

Suggestions please....

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 Post subject: Re: BEGINNER-LEVEL | TGF SHOOTING COMPETITION

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:) It is good to see growing interest in competition shooting among TGF members. A very good suggestion which, if carried out properly, can help raise the standard of shooting of TGF's beginner level shooters.

Just a humble suggestion:
Based on the scores we saw during the 15M event last Sunday, the following of our members scored below 120 out of 200 (below 60%) and may be considered beginner-level:

1- Farooq123
2- Khurram2004
3- Furrukh
4- Moosa Al Hammadi
5- Asif Ali
6- Guns for me
7- siqbal
8- AtiRadeon
9- ISK

Let's have suggestions from other members especially our beginner-level shooters.

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 Post subject: Re: A COMPETITION for us BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS too........

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Guys,

It's surprising that we haven't had any feedback on this. Please provide your inputs.

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 Post subject: Re: A COMPETITION for us BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS too........

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hmm


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 Post subject: Re: A COMPETITION for us BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS too........

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Agreed Farrukh and SA. My request is to please arrange a training session instead of competition after Eid.


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 Post subject: Re: A COMPETITION for us BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS too........

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I think the drill should be practiced at the range noting timing for each shooter. For this whoever gets time for the range may practice individually or with groups. Of course, one may give input as to number of mags to be used/no of rounds/ etc etc. IMHV practice of drawing weapon, feeding carts, aiming at the target, running in the process are the areas for one's practice. The more we do drills the better we should be getting.


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 Post subject: Re: A COMPETITION for us BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS too........

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@SIqbal: The competition will be followed by a feedback session in which the seniors will be pointing out the errors. So in one event we will achieve 2 objectives.

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 Post subject: Re: A COMPETITION for us BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS too........

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Wajeeh Hasan wrote:
I think the drill should be practiced at the range noting timing for each shooter. For this whoever gets time for the range may practice individually or with groups. Of course, one may give input as to number of mags to be used/no of rounds/ etc etc. IMHV practice of drawing weapon, feeding carts, aiming at the target, running in the process are the areas for one's practice. The more we do drills the better we should be getting.


Agreed. However, the only reason why I recommended a time limit was to include the spice of pressure and see how we perform during pressure. Mind you that practical shooting trains us for real life situations (uder immense pressure situations) in which the shooter who is the quickest survives the battle.

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 Post subject: Re: A COMPETITION for us BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS too........

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Very right Furrukh bro....time is essence as we need to do most of the things right if not 'every' in a limited time or as soon as possible.


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 Post subject: Re: A COMPETITION for us BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS too........

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Bravo Farrukh .. As I mentioned earlier that we have enterned into a new ERA..
Excellent inatiative .. Count me in for 15m and buster drill

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 Post subject: Re: A COMPETITION for us BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS too........

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Guys, challenge yourself! Have the buster drill as it is, please. Reducing it will not be fun enough. Even one round out of 3 in the A zone will be pretty encouraging. Go ahead, increase points/score for 25mtr distance, and see who can then score most.

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 Post subject: Re: A COMPETITION for us BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS too........

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Wajeeh Hasan wrote:
Very right Furrukh bro....time is essence as we need to do most of the things right if not 'every' in a limited time or as soon as possible.


:handgestures-salute:

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 Post subject: Re: A COMPETITION for us BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS too........

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braveheart wrote:
Bravo Farrukh .. As I mentioned earlier that we have enterned into a new ERA..
Excellent inatiative .. Count me in for 15m and buster drill


Thanks for the appreciation brother. Now we have 2 confirmed participants.

SA: Can you please confirm our participation in the list of participants mentioned above by yourself.

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Last edited by Furrukh on Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A COMPETITION for us BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS too........

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Saif wrote:
Guys, challenge yourself! Have the buster drill as it is, please. Reducing it will not be fun enough. Even one round out of 3 in the A zone will be pretty encouraging. Go ahead, increase points/score for 25mtr distance, and see who can then score most.


Saif bhai 25m is my demon which I'm not ready to face atleast for the time being. Atleast till I get my basic errors rectified. The only reason why I personally disagreed with the idea of manual reloading was because in real life situations we'll most probably be carrying 2 mags at full capacity. But if the beginner boys want to do it that way then I'll comply :-)

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 Post subject: Re: A COMPETITION for us BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS too........

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In my opinion Beginners Precision Competition should also be taken as an skill development practice i.e. beginners should be able to learn while competing. I would suggest following format:

Sighting shots: 4
Shot per string: 4 (on beginner level 5 shots/string is higher, instead strings should be increased)
Total strings: 5
Time for 4 shots: 40 seconds
Distance: 10 Meters
Caliber allowed: 9mm/ .45/ .30
Only guns used for Self Defense should be allowed (no match grade/range gun). Optical and laser sights are not allowed. (Each participant will be required to take prior approval for caliber and handgun).
As beginners are at learning stage, after each string, shooter should be allowed to see his/her targets as where his/her shots are landing so that he could adjust/alter his POA, stance etc for next string.
All double action semi-automatic pistols must fire the first shot of every stage double action and with all safeties ON. (Logic is that this will make shooter used to firing in real-life self defense situation where he carry de-cocked and safety on and first shot is double action. This way his skills will more develop for long pull while maintaining precision).

One thing I noted is that many of our members have shotguns but they are unable to find any formal competition at least at beginner level and that why not very much accustomed with shotgun, instead all concentration is diverted towards handguns.
I would also recommend a SHOTGUN competition with 15-meter distance for beginners as a separate event, preferably on same day or later on.
Comments/Suggestions are welcomed :)


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 Post subject: Re: A COMPETITION for us BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS too........

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Furrukh wrote:
braveheart wrote:
Bravo Farrukh .. As I mentioned earlier that we have enterned into a new ERA..
Excellent inatiative .. Count me in for 15m and buster drill


Thanks for the appreciation brother. Now we have 2 confirmed participants.

SA: Can you please confirm our participation in the list of participants mentioned above by yourself.


In my personal view, following of our members scored below 120 out of 200 (below 60%) and may be considered beginner-level:

1- Farooq123
2- Khurram2004
3- Furrukh
4- Moosa Al Hammadi
5- Asif Ali
6- Guns for me
7- siqbal
8- AtiRadeon
9- ISK

I do not consider braveheart a beginner-level shooter :)

Canik, Martial20 and MI, in my opinion, should also participate in this category.

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 Post subject: Re: A COMPETITION for us BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS too........

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Brothers
Let me share some of my points that I noted reading this and the other competition shooting thread.

- I see that there is extra emphasis on scoring better in the competition rather than learning the correct technique. This is not good.

- In order to show a better performance, standards are being lowered. IMO and as Saif pointed out, the right way is to accept the challenge and bring your standard up to that level. Let it take time because it will. There is no short cut.

- If you practice at longer distances only than you will be able to shoot accurately at shorter distances during real SD situations. If you practice at shorter distances like 10 M, you may be wasting your ammo. As per my experience, your SD performance will be around 10% of your practice performance. Do the maths.

- Do lot of dry practice (not necessarily dry firing). That will help a lot.

- There is no shortcut to learning the correct technique and the mother of all practices is bull's eye shooting. If you can make a small group, you are good and will be good in any shooting discipline you undertake; practical shooting, precision shooting, anything. Learning will take its time. Be patient and give it that time.

- You may have a competition for making smallest group instead of scoring on the proper target. Use a plain sheet, something like this......

Image
This is a target shot by Haider during his practice session while preparing for Junior National Championship. They used to shoot on reverse side of the target....

I wish you best of luck :greetings-waveyellow:

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 Post subject: Re: A COMPETITION for us BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS too........

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Very useful inputs by Saif and KBW. I completely agree.

We should be clear what our objective is. Is it:

a) Self-satisfaction by just scoring well at shorter distances; or

b) Raising our standard of shooting.

If it is the later, then what Saif and KBW have advised is the way to go.

Are we going to follow proven, tried and tested approach or are we going to try to invent new approaches based on whatever "beginner-level" knowledge we have about the sport of shooting.

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Bolt actions speak louder than words

Sometimes adding 175 grains of boat-tailed diplomacy speeds up Peace Talks


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 Post subject: Re: A COMPETITION for us BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS too........

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i m in,
agreed with asif ali, all the participants write their guns and calibre before finalizing the dates.
also the advice of shotgun by asif ali is very good.

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 Post subject: Re: A COMPETITION for us BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS too........

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Guys, guys, guys !!! Hang on a second. Lets not make things complicated. It is a simple proposition. Let's stick to the basics here. Though valid points raised by all but I personally believe that we're running way ahead of ourselves.

I'll make another proposition. On any given Sunday (depending on everyone's availability) let's have a training session. Beginners will shoot from 15m and a senior could be tag to every 3 shooters. Feedback can be given live. Let's get our basics right and aim to get our scores to atleast 130 - 140 before we can start talking about advanced competitions. Perhaps we can have a competition too later next month.

Any takers ?

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 Post subject: Re: A COMPETITION for us BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS too........

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That's a wonderful suggestion Furrukh and exactly what is required to improve our shooting standards.

I volunteer for this Sunday. I'm willing to dedicate one hour of range time to spend with three shooters concentrating on just the basics. Five shots at a time, checking targets, analyzing errors, correcting the mistakes and repeating the routine.

I would request everyone to please read in detail the first post of the following thread by KBW sb >>> viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2149

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 Post subject: Re: A COMPETITION for us BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS too........

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Furrukh wrote:
Guys, guys, guys !!! Hang on a second. Lets not make things complicated. It is a simple proposition. Let's stick to the basics here. Though valid points raised by all but I personally believe that we're running way ahead of ourselves.

I'll make another proposition. On any given Sunday (depending on everyone's availability) let's have a training session. Beginners will shoot from 15m and a senior could be tag to every 3 shooters. Feedback can be given live. Let's get our basics right and aim to get our scores to atleast 130 - 140 before we can start talking about advanced competitions. Perhaps we can have a competition too later next month.

Any takers ?
This is a very good plan in my view. The only change I would suggest would be that PLEASE forget about the score for a while. You should shoot on reverse side of the paper so that no rings / target is visible to you. CONCENTRATE ON GROUP SIZE. The benchmark should therefore be a certain group size and not the score. SCORE IS IRRELEVANT at this stage.

regards

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 Post subject: Re: A COMPETITION for us BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS too........

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I completely agree with KBW.


@ Furrukh, you're on the right track and I assure you that within three to four dedicated coaching sessions you'll see your score improving from the existing 110 to 140+.

The same is applicable to all other beginner shooters

I'd like to give the example of one of our member, Dr. Who, who also participated in Sunday's competition and scored 165/200. I do not intend to blow my own trumpets but this is the 7th or 8th time (session) in his life that this person is shooting. During each of the previous visits (except during our 2nd shooting competition) he insisted that I coach him and he intently listened and thoroughly read KBW's above referred post about basic techniques. The result is in front of us. One more thing... if you work on your basics, it is irrelevant which handgun you're using. Dr. Who had only used PT 92 till now and this was the first time he was holding a CZ Shadow which he used during the competition and scored 165. :)


So, in addition to Furrukh, who else is in?

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Bolt actions speak louder than words

Sometimes adding 175 grains of boat-tailed diplomacy speeds up Peace Talks


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 Post subject: Re: A COMPETITION for us BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS too........

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KBW sb i dont know if this is the right thread, but how does one enroll for such a competition like the one haider is participating in?

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 Post subject: Re: A COMPETITION for us BEGINNER-LEVEL SHOOTERS too........

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FK wrote:
KBW sb i dont know if this is the right thread, but how does one enroll for such a competition like the one haider is participating in?
FK bro there is already a thread where Haider95 has posted details of the championship. It will be better to discuss this thing there.
http://www.thegunforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=655&start=325

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