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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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fahad khalid wrote:
...Once you have figured out the basics doing it at a faster pace is quiet simple. Doing them both together is NOT WRONG but it would be like riding to boats together...

@Canik i have to disagree with you here. 99% of all hunters are regular range shooters and during off seasons, they are seen regularly practicing on shooting ranges.


@FK brother.. Shooting the target in faster pace just doesnt need the trigger and muscle motor skills. Practical shooting is a very complicated thing.. I have read a book by brian enos.. and in the whole book there are hardly 25 photos.. rest is all words after words.. pure theory..

Secondly .. FK bro.. I know many many hunters who just started hunting without too much of practice and learned as they elated the ladder to proficiency.. Hunting was what got me to this place.. hunters NEVER come to shooting ranges.. take my word for it.. NEVER. they would take a gun and walk around in wilderness and test it PRACTICALLY.
take my word for it.. i did NOTHING except hunt for 6 whole years.. even left studies.. I am not boasting but just sharing my experience of it.. wasted huge amount of my life on hunting and doing nothing in spare time...

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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exactly @Canik.. target shooting just teaches the intricacies of shooting at a paper target .. which is at 25 meters .. and still at one place.. NOTHING else..
practical shooting teaches the tough situations where you have to manipulate the weapon in the combat like situation and move from the X.. or where you were.. i remember FK asking me if there is a shooting what is the first thing you do.. i answered that move from you place.. and circled the group that was standing in middle and i was holding my hands as if in a shooting position.. i wanted to show how relevant practical shooting is in real scenarios..

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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Atiq bhai too bad you spent all this time hunting. You should have spent sometime socializing with hunters also, you may have learnt a few things about real life. KBW sb is a regular hunter and pretty good one..so is Ghazi sb (Col Jawed Umer) who has probably hunted on almost every continent.
Anyways Atiq bhai and Canik wish you all the best with your practices. This thread has started giving me a headache. I really like the second line of your signature Atiq bhai, so keep that line in mind, i bow out of this conversation.
Regards.

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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This is really worrying me. What Atiq sb is advising can be very dangerous for a newbie. hmmmmm

Has any one of you (karachi members) ever seem Atiq sb do practical shooting? How good is he? or is it just talk based on books read?

Sorry for asking


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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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atiqmassan wrote:
exactly @Canik.. target shooting just teaches the intricacies of shooting at a paper target .. which is at 25 meters .. and still at one place.. NOTHING else..
practical shooting teaches the tough situations where you have to manipulate the weapon in the combat like situation and move from the X.. or where you were.. i remember FK asking me if there is a shooting what is the first thing you do.. i answered that move from you place.. and circled the group that was standing in middle and i was holding my hands as if in a shooting position.. i wanted to show how relevant practical shooting is in real scenarios..


same...
like i said b4 i dont care 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5
i care to shot, and defend myself in a combat situation,
when Bg starts to fire and attacked me, my priority was to save myself here and there, then attacked from my side.
target dont shoot back then how can one learn that how to save ?

matter is to defend ourselves and shot the BGs with 3 or 4 rounds, dont care where but need of gunned down is must

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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peace

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Last edited by SR on Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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Sir, I will humbly say if someone thinks that proper basic training is not required than I do not agree with him. It is proper training which gives a person capability to perform when the time comes. But I will not discuss it more, I have no doubt about it that one has to train on basics first otherwise he will never be excellent and will always commit mistakes when the time comes. It may be shooting, driving or any game.
I do not like to boast on the forum and always try to learn from others by asking questions. But this do not mean that I know nothing about shooting. I am sorry to say that some people on this forum think other dont know anything about practial shooting and start giving long lecture when they are asked simple questions. I am shooting since last more than 15 year regularly, have shot many thousand of rounds of different calibers, I hunt also and seven times in my life, I had to fire in self defense to save my life. I have been practicing shooting on proper precision targets and also shooting while moving from different position, at night and even from the window of moving car. But I have been doing it my own way and I wanted to know some drills which can make this process more interesting and challenging. Thats why I started this thread for learning some interesting practical shooting drill which we can do without spending lot of money and range arrangement and not for getting lecture on this that basic shooting training is not required. I am very clear that without basic training which means good trigger control, good sight picture, good grip and stance etc and which finally transform in to capability to make a small group, different style of practical shooting is of no use and I have enough experience to believe in what I am saying. Thanks :handgestures-salute:

For God sake please stop this argument now. Can we start discussing some nice practical shooting drills and stop this discussion about doing or not doing basic training, size of groups etc. I think this thread will be much better thread if we share our experience on making some new and interesting practical shooting drills instead of giving long lectures to others. :)

regards

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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MythBuster wrote:

Can we start discussing some nice practical shooting drills and stop this discussion about doing or not doing basic training, size of groups etc. I think this thread will be much better thread if we share our experience on making some new and interesting practical shooting drills instead of giving long lectures to others. :)

regards


agreed bro, to discuss new..

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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Let me share somethng.. when practical shooting is practiced it at the very outset shows the problems of draw technique.. from holster to aiming at target. NO need to take a shot.. just dry fire practice is enough.. when one is comfortable then one can do a lot of additional things.. In target shooting the shooter takes all the time he wants to and then shoots and maybe even doesnt shoot.. the goal is get the bullet into the center. that is all..
in practical shooting draw.. reload.. target transition.. shooting on moving target.. shooting while moving.. double taps... shooting behind cover.. shooting on knees.. shooting while laying down and what not is done.. THIS shows the shooter his real capabilities..

@Fk brother i have hunted throughout the Sindh province and have arranged hunts with over 100 hunters.. (Once) and it was an awesome event.. Me starting my professional life as an Advocate took all my time away.. and then lost the knack for it.

@ Zargham Alvi.. Brother there are clips of my shooting on the facebook.. go here
https://www.facebook.com/NationalPracti ... ssociation
in timeline you will see me shoot..
I have not just been reading books but watching some DVDs of pros as well and practice as much as i can.. even with dangerous ammo.. moreover I also have some really experienced people that showed me a lot of things.. missing them a lot.. this was started almost one and half year ago.. when on 1 march 2011 we (Me and Hamza) held the first practical shooting event.. and there i showed FK bro some techniques that made him shoot some really nice holes.. see the thread about Fahad Khalid wins El presidante event.. on TGF. FK Bro himself will acknowledge this..
Secondly shooting in inherently dangerous if the shooter doesn't practice weapon manipulation with proper techniques.. keeping on waiting for getting better on target and waiting for miracle to happen so that you can start practical shooting is just going to make one love target as practical shooting becomes harder and harder due to movement drills.

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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Canik wrote:
fahad khalid wrote:
Atiq bhai too bad you spent all this time hunting. You should have spent sometime socializing with hunters also, you may have learnt a few things about real life. KBW sb is a regular hunter and pretty good one..so is Ghazi sb (Col Jawed Umer) who has probably hunted on almost every continent.
Anyways Atiq bhai and Canik wish you all the best with your practices. This thread has started giving me a headache. I really like the second line of your signature Atiq bhai, so keep that line in mind, i bow out of this conversation.
Regards.



the above quoted by you is not fair to any one,
just discuss, no personal attacks,,, BRo.


i had already left this conversation as an argument long before when FK bro gave a lengthy reply.. to my words.. i didnt even read it. hehehehe :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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Canik wrote:
atiqmassan wrote:
exactly @Canik.. target shooting just teaches the intricacies of shooting at a paper target .. which is at 25 meters .. and still at one place.. NOTHING else..
practical shooting teaches the tough situations where you have to manipulate the weapon in the combat like situation and move from the X.. or where you were.. i remember FK asking me if there is a shooting what is the first thing you do.. i answered that move from you place.. and circled the group that was standing in middle and i was holding my hands as if in a shooting position.. i wanted to show how relevant practical shooting is in real scenarios..


same...
like i said b4 i dont care 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5
i care to shot, and defend myself in a combat situation,
when Bg starts to fire and attacked me, my priority was to save myself here and there, then attacked from my side.
target dont shoot back then how can one learn that how to save ?

matter is to defend ourselves and shot the BGs with 3 or 4 rounds, dont care where but need of gunned down is must


My two cents for you two gentlemen



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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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Canik wrote:
MythBuster wrote:

Can we start discussing some nice practical shooting drills and stop this discussion about doing or not doing basic training, size of groups etc. I think this thread will be much better thread if we share our experience on making some new and interesting practical shooting drills instead of giving long lectures to others. :)

regards


agreed bro, to discuss new..


this step by MB is very positive. agreed again.

request to mods, admin to delete all unnecessary posts and clean the thread from arguments.

this thread is for practical shooting drils,

thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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I again request all to stop lecturing about advantages of practical shooting and target shooting. We all know them and we are wasting our time in convincing each other. Now lets have some interesting discussion on some practical shooting drills. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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22lr wrote:
My two cents for you two gentlemen




peace bro Peace

so no comments.

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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Zargham Alvi wrote:
This is really worrying me. What Atiq sb is advising can be very dangerous for a newbie. hmmmmm

Has any one of you (karachi members) ever seem Atiq sb do practical shooting? How good is he? or is it just talk based on books read?

Sorry for asking


I am a pioneer member for ASCC and was first to take the membership for the range but had never seen him doing any practical drills at range .. and :shhh:

@ Atiq bro, just answering the question no offense. :arrow:

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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atiqmassan wrote:
Canik wrote:
fahad khalid wrote:
Atiq bhai too bad you spent all this time hunting. You should have spent sometime socializing with hunters also, you may have learnt a few things about real life. KBW sb is a regular hunter and pretty good one..so is Ghazi sb (Col Jawed Umer) who has probably hunted on almost every continent.
Anyways Atiq bhai and Canik wish you all the best with your practices. This thread has started giving me a headache. I really like the second line of your signature Atiq bhai, so keep that line in mind, i bow out of this conversation.
Regards.



the above quoted by you is not fair to any one,
just discuss, no personal attacks,,, BRo.


i had already left this conversation as an argument long before when FK bro gave a lengthy reply.. to my words.. i didnt even read it. hehehehe :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:

You really don't know bro but you really did .... :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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Everyone,

Let's please end all off-topic discussions in this thread, immediately.

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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Canik wrote:
fahad khalid wrote:
Canik wrote:
@ zargham Alvi,
so what ? i dont care about 10, 9, 8, 7, 6

eight shots in the dark black area are enough for me. (and for BG to down)
i dont want to win the competition and say dont have time, i want to save my and my loved ones life.

thats all.

Canik i hope you do remember that BGs shoot back and paper targets dont. So if i were you, and i would want to save my loved ones, i would care about 10,9,8,7 and 6 also.



now the scene change in a minute. thats what here practical needs.
as u stated paper targets dont, same applied on the target shooting.
and to learn how to hide and move is the practical needs. :D
so what is target for ?

It's a preparation for the examination which GOD forbid might be ready to enroll you on your way home or else..... But if you are not prepared than sing a song bro "Nahi para main nee poora saal ab kia hoo ga mera haal" :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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Sorry SA, Read your mes after posting .. Will be careful.

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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I think Atiqmassan is the right guy to advise on practical shooting as he has fired thousands of rounds doing practical shooting. It is a pity no one has learnt from by watching him do those drills.
atiq please come up with one such drill for novices here as per topic title


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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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Gun Enthusiast wrote:
I think Atiqmassan is the right guy to advise on practical shooting as he has fired thousands of rounds doing practical shooting. It is a pity no one has learnt from by watching him do those drills.
atiq please come up with one such drill for novices here as per topic title

+1

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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Lets come up to the topic.
@ Atiq Bro, as per our last year discussion your have also taken a very profound and value addition step by initiating PPSA, what is the status these days. Is it started ... just asking so that we can also be able to learn few things out of it and might change our views.

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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Here Are A Few Exercises ToTry Out.

Draws:
Ö Draws to a position: Kneeling, prone, around barricade, around a door,
Ö Draws from a position: Seated, out of a box, out of a drawer, tool box
Ö Turning draws
Ö Weak hand and strong hand draws
Ö Weak hand and strong hand transfers
Ö Target transfers
Ö Eye speed exercises

Reloads:
Ö Reload to strong or weak hand
Ö Reload to kneeling and prone
Ö Reload around door or barricade
Ö Movement around the house — practice going down a hallway, entering doors,
Ö Make up your own. Just make sure that your are practicing a specific skill and are performing that skill right.

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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Below is not a very good approach ZA bro, as it will demoralize any new shooter. Canik is a new shooter, and this is very good effort for first time shooting. We must encourage him to shoot and post results more often, this is how people learn. I am sure that as he improves in basics, he will shoot much better. I have still not mastered the trigger squeeze, and only realized it two or three months ago the difference between squeeze and pull! Believe me, it took me about 1700-1800 rounds of target shooting to realize this basic point! I am sure you did not mean to discourage him, but I thought I should make a few points clear here.

@Canik bro, please keep up the good work.

Zargham Alvi wrote:

Canik, I do not mean to offend you, but... this is your target from 5 meters.

Image

Let's see how long it takes for you to bring those group size down to 10 inches, first from 5 meters and then from 10 meters. And then I'll ask you to shoot fast from 10 meters and we'll see where the rounds are going.



@Canik bro, please keep up the good work.


Regarding, draws, now I would advise you to practice all what you mentioned, but, also practice on basics and fundamentals of all types of shooting. Please also read a new thread by KBW sb

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2149&start=0

Back to topic, carry on everyone..

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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Zargham Alvi wrote:
Canik, I do not mean to offend you, but... this is your target from 5 meters.

Image

Let's see how long it takes for you to bring those group size down to 10 inches, first from 5 meters and then from 10 meters. And then I'll ask you to shoot fast from 10 meters and we'll see where the rounds are going.

Zargham Alvi brother
May I ask you why you have posted this target? Why do you want to embarrass a fellow member? BTW, I have never seen you posting a target at TGF..... what is your own standard?

You may not agree with Canik's point of view but disagreeing with someone's point of view and embarrassing him are two very different things and I would say a mature person should understand the difference.

What massage we are giving to the fellow members who are trying to learn shooting? As per TGF policy, new shooters are to be encouraged for going to range, shoot a target and than post results so that senior members can guide him about his mistakes and help him in improving his standards. Ofcourse, the results of a new shooter will seldom be good. So..... how is TGF helping him? And if we keep quoting the targets of new shooters like this, why should a new shooter post his target on TGF and seek guidance from seniors? No one would like to get embarrassed like that.

I would humbly request all to maintain an atmosphere of mutual respect for each other. We may argue on anything, may disagree on the basis of a rationale but should always stay within the limits which define mutual respect for each other.

This thread is regarding practical shooting drill and we should not discuss anything else here. For discussion on the difference between basic training and competition shooting and also merits / demerits of various types of competition shooting discipline, I have given my input in following thread and we may discuss this issue further, if we want to, in that thread.
http://thegunforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2149&view=unread#unread

I thank you all. :)

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