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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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OK guys, here is a drill which I think can be practice. I have kept in mind that arrangements should be simple and the practice should be economical from ammo expenditure. Please give your views to improve this drill :)

Arrangement: We need three targets placed at 10 ft away from each other in one line. Since standard pistols targets are already available with most of us we can use the same target. If there is some other target than we can usethat also. There should be marking for three firing points at 25 m, 15 m and 10 m.
25 m point should be infront of left target and at 45 degree from this point toward right side we should have 15 m point infront of target 3 (right most). We need 9 rounds and a stop watch for this drill.

The Drill:
1. Shooter should stand on 25 m firing point with 3 rounds loaded in each magazine and three rounds in his pocket. He puts one magazine in pistols and puts the pistol in holster, with no round in chamber. Second mag is placed in mag pouch.
2. The range master blow whistle and starts stop watch. The shooter draw his pistol, rake the slide and shoot three round on target 1 (left most).
3. The shooter runs towards his right and forward towards 15 m point. He reaches there, changes magazine and put the second magazine with three round in it and shoots three rounds on target 3 (right most). He can change magazine any time after shooting from 25 m, it is upto the shooter.
4. Now, the shooter runs towards left and forward and reaches 10 m point which is located infront of middle target. He now loads three rounds in mag and shoots three rounds on target 2 (middle target). When he shoots third round and say "UP", the range master stops the stop watch.
5. For scoring, it can be as follows
- Target should have two scoring areas. One the black area which is upto 7 ring and the other is white area outside 7 ring.
- From 25 m, shooter should get 10 points for hitting in black area and 5 points for white area. No point for shots outside target.
- From 15 and 10 m, he should get 6 points for black area and 3 points in white area. Zero points outside target.
- In timings, the shooter should have 25 seconds to complete this drill. If he do it in 25 seconds, he get 50 points.
- With every extra second taken more than 25 seconds, he should get a penalty of 2 points deducted from 50 points. eg. If he do it in 30 seconds he should get 50 - 10 = 40 points
- For every second less than 25 seconds, he should get 3 points added to 50 points as bonus. eg, if he do it in 20 second, he should get 50 + 15 = 65 points.
- In the end, range master should count the hits on the targets plus the points of timings and declare final score.

How is this drill? please give your views :)

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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MB
I think this is an interesting drill and is quite easy to manage. In fact, as I see it, one does not need anything extra on the range. Just a stop watch and marking of 3 points, other than your routine range gear. Thanks for the effort brother. :greetings-waveyellow:

I will try this on the next range session.

Can we include some backward movement in it? But I think its ok to start with. In first phase we may only go for forwards and sideways movement. When that is done, we may have a similar drill involving backward movement also. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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well what i get from this thread is that only people who can make a 5 inch group at 25 meters should do this drill..
anyways.. Adios TGF..

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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Very well put Saif and KBW.

The whole purpose of TGF is to promote the sport of shooting and an environment where new shooters are motivated, appreciated and guided by senior members. Any sarcasm, similar to the one above, is directly in conflict with the our purpose, hence the same will not be allowed.

@ Canik,

Bro, continue your regular practice and keep sharing your targets. :) Let me know if you would like to visit tomorrow also.

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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@KBW sb, backward movement can be incorporated in the drill i think or rather the whole drill can be done backwards. If the shooter starts from the 10 mtr mark and work his/her way back to the 25 mtr marker.
One thing i would like to add here, would an addition of a barrier, somewhere in between, which can be presumed to be a cover for the shooter. Because if the shooter has to load three rounds into a mag, while moving, he has to holestor the pistol and be open to offensive fire. Just an opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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MythBuster wrote:
4. Now, the shooter runs towards left and forward and reaches 10 m point which is located infront of middle target. He now loads three rounds in mag and shoots three rounds on target 2 (middle target). When he shoots third round and say "UP", the range master stops the stop watch.


What I get from this is:
-The 25 mtr mark is far left, 15 mtr is far right, and 10mtr in the middle, and shooter first moves right (20 ft), then left (10ft)
-Does one have to holster the gun when loading three rounds in the magazine for the 10mtr target, or can he do the way he likes? of course muzzle has to be either down range, or pointing down!

Also, why three shots at all distances, why not two (double tap)?

Sounds interesting though! Might try sometime.

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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Saif wrote:
MythBuster wrote:
4. Now, the shooter runs towards left and forward and reaches 10 m point which is located infront of middle target. He now loads three rounds in mag and shoots three rounds on target 2 (middle target). When he shoots third round and say "UP", the range master stops the stop watch.


What I get from this is:
-The 25 mtr mark is far left, 15 mtr is far right, and 10mtr in the middle, and shooter first moves right (20 ft), then left (10ft)
-Does one have to holster the gun when loading three rounds in the magazine for the 10mtr target, or can he do the way he likes? of course muzzle has to be either down range, or pointing down!

Also, why three shots at all distances, why not two (double tap)?

Sounds interesting though! Might try sometime.

Why not tomorrow bro?

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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Saif wrote:
-Does one have to holster the gun when loading three rounds in the magazine for the 10mtr target, or can he do the way he likes? of course muzzle has to be either down range, or pointing down!


I don't think its possible to load three rounds into an empty magazine while running and holding a gun in one hand. So it will have to be holestered. i would like MB to elaborate, as this point has me a bit confused also.

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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atiqmassan wrote:
well what i get from this thread is that only people who can make a 5 inch group at 25 meters should do this drill..
anyways.. Adios TGF..
Sir, anyone who can handle weapons with safety and knows how to operate a weapons can take take part in this. But only those who have good basic shooting skills will succed in making good score. If a shooter is very good, he will shoot all in black area and score 66 points. If he is very fast also he can do it in 20 second so he get 65 points. 66 plus 65 make 121 points. I think no will will be able to score more than 130 in this stage. Let's see how much we score. But I agree that those who are begginner or have weak shooting skill will not be able to make good score in this drill. It will be difficult for them. For begginners we can think of some simple drill. :shifty:


fahad khalid wrote:
Saif wrote:
-Does one have to holster the gun when loading three rounds in the magazine for the 10mtr target, or can he do the way he likes? of course muzzle has to be either down range, or pointing down!
Also, why three shots at all distances, why not two (double tap)?


I don't think its possible to load three rounds into an empty magazine while running and holding a gun in one hand. So it will have to be holestered. i would like MB to elaborate, as this point has me a bit confused also.
Sir, I think shooter should load three rounds in the mag after firing his three shots at 15 m point. When he move to 10 m point, his gun should be loaded and should be in his hand. At 20 m point, shooter has his choice. He can holster his gun and load mag and he can also kneel down, place his gun safely and load three round, or any other safe method he feels like.

About three rounds and why not two rounds, we can discuss and change if needed. In my view he take 3 quick shots. He has to shoot fast and also accurately to get more points. If he feels double tap from 25 m will get him more points than he can shoot double tap. But I think he should not shoot less than three round. I wanted to make it four actually. Two is less in my view. :)

I am open to suggestions :)

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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I think we must try this out first, I also posted simple drills on page 2 ( there were a few others by Atiq Massan), but if we start modifying, we end up with no drills! Let's do this first.

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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Or maybe we can incorporate both, 3 shots. 2 double tape and a single head shot, for which one of the scoring zone would have to be a little higher. i think Ghazi sb mentioned he has practical shooting targets, humanoids (i think thts wht they are called). they have a head and a torso. so a double tap to the torso followed by a head shot. increases the difficulty level also in my opinion

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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@
saif, KBW, and SA

Thanks for your concern and positive approach.

@ SA
Next sunday, insha-allah i will come to the range


:handgestures-salute: :handgestures-salute:

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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You are welcome Canik.

@FK, I would still think let it be the way it is, and we can change it after we have done this a few times, and we get to a par score, our individual par score, that is..

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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Okaye, lets do this next sunday

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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Let me congratulate on devising a very interesting drill. I tried it today and let me tell you, its not easy. In order to do it in 25 seconds with good pts in accuracy also, one will have to do everything right.

Carried out two practices. This was my result today....

First Practice:
25 m Target: 10+10+0....... 20 pts
15 m Target: 6+6+6.......... 18 pts
10 m Target: 6+6+6.......... 18 pts
Time taken: 43 seconds.....50-36...14 pts
Total: 70 pts

Second Practice:
25 m Target: 10+10+6....... 26 pts
15 m Target: 6+6+6.......... 18 pts
10 m Target: 6+6+6.......... 18 pts
Time taken: 40 seconds.....50-30...20 pts
Total: 82 pts

Max time was taken at 15 m where I had to take out 3 carts from my pocket, kneel down, take out mag and hold pistol in my legs and load three carts, put the mag in the gun and release the slide release lever. One will have to practice this, I took around 20 seconds for this complete drill.

Enjoyed doing this drill. It's sure quite a fun. This was the first time and I realised few follies during conduct which I will try not to repeat next time. With practice one will be able to touch 100 or more but scoring anything over 115 would require higher degree of skill. Anything over 120 will be very difficult, in my view.

Did you try it yourself, MB? I think Fahad and Saif have decided to do it next week. I know most of you would be able to do better than this because you guys are young and more fit, but I thought I must share my results with you. One warning.... if you are a little off focus from 25 m, there are bright chances of missing the target altogether. That means missing 10 pts. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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Thankyou for sharing KBW sb. I realize this is already a good score, and a very good drill.

Would you please explain the holding of the gun between the legs at 15mtrs?
Any minor changes/adjustments you would have in mind after doing this drill?

KBW wrote:
I know most of you would be able to do better than this because you guys are young and more fit, but I thought I must share my results with you.

I am sure FK and GP got your message loud and clear..

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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KBW sb i might be young, but i am no where near fit. But yes do explain holding the gun between the legs. Would it be any easier had you holestered the weapon?

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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@KBW
Yes Sir, i tried the drill on friend private range but my score was not very good. I think I need much practice to do this type of drill.
I scored 16 from 25 m, 15 from 15 m and 18 from 10 m which is total 49 in shooting but my total time was 53 sec. this mean I get zero points in timings and my tatal score remain 49. :cry:

I think i need to improve many things to score well in this drill. I also dont have proper holster for my Shadow and also I should buy two mag pouch also otherwise lot of time is wasted. I also need to practice bullet loading with speed and also shooting quickly. My shooting was not very bad but overall time was not good. Now I think that doing this drill in 25 second will be difficult. Do we change the time or let it be 25 second? We also should have some name for this drill :roll:

regards

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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Let name it after the founder if this drill and call it the buster drill :)
In the begining dont worry abt the scoring bro.

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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@Fahad Khalid,

I back your idea of doing it backwards....i.e.moving away from the tergets, because in a real life scenario or in a real gunfight, the idea is to get away from the situation as soon as possible, secondly I IMHO the magazine should holstered and one does not need to load the 3 rounds in a magazine since one would be ready after firing the first magazine, although I must say that inserting the rounds in the magazine does make it more challenging!!!

@Mythbuster,
good job designing this drill....excellent effort!! "BUSTER DRILL" I like it!!! :)

regards,
gichki.

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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OK......... so BUSTER DRILL it is .. :mrgreen: Good name BTW :text-bravo:

@Saif
I just bent down on my knees. Before bending down, I took out three bullets that I had in my pocket because it would have been difficult to take them out in kneeling position. Then, I took the mag out and held the gun between my legs. I would have been better off putting it back in the holster and I will do it this way in future drills (may be). Then, I loaded my mag and put it back in the gun, got up, released the slide lever and ran towards the 10 m point while holding a gun ready to fire in my hand. In my view, one should not leave his cover unless he has a loaded gun in his hand. So I would not encourage running to 10 m point with empty gun in the hand and filling the mag at 10 m point. But overall, I think we should not put any restrictions in this regards and let the shooter do how he feels convenient and safe. Let it be more close to reality.

@FK and Gichki
In my view, for the time being we can continue with the same drill. I think first we practice move forward and when we get good at it, we should practice moving back also. The emphasis should be laid on practicing this drill FIRST. What I experienced yesterday was that unless we do it, we wont be talking of practical experience rather would be getting into theories of "do this and do that". So let do it on ground and when more of us have done it on the range, we can talk about our experience and the suggested changes (which we would have experienced and not anticipated). :)

regards

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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Ok, would try it out on my next range visit and report! :handgestures-salute:

Good initiative KBW and Mythbuster! ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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Here's a practical (can also be called tactical) shooting drill we did at the range yesterday:

Image







[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8CUS5YrkUnU[/youtube]

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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THE BUSTER DRILL

I carried out this drill yesterday, (as posted above) and my result was as follows:



Scoring was not possible as the target used had rings only till 5. I was a bit confused at the end because I was wondering whether it would have been more beneficial if Silhouette targets had been used instead of these precision shooting targets.

As in KBW's case, the maximum time was taken at 15 m where too opted to kneel down (Atahiyat position - was much faster). The whole drill took me 30 seconds to finish.

None of the shooter (Saif, myself, GP, Usama and siqbal) were able to get more than one shot on target (within ring 5) from 25M.

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 Post subject: Re: Practical Shooting Drills

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@ SA
Thanks for share.and good effort
it means for practical shooting ones needs to be used too very much.

as you(SA), Saif, Gp and usama are good target shooters, but the results are not satisfactory,

so in the end,
do we all of us need more practice of target shooting ? to overcome practical
OR
or do we need to seriously practice tactical or practical shooting ?

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