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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP-153 > Pattern & Spread Discussion

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Thanks for sharing Haider.

We should promote such gifted gunsmiths everywhere we can.

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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP-153 > Pattern & Spread Discussion

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Finally guys......

I got the gun from Sargodha and have received the chokes from states. Below are the pics of trulock chokes, will post the pics of MP153 along with pattern charts after testing on this Sunday. I also was successful in making 2 chokes for my baikal Mp153. The pattern of the local made chokes is good, will share the results on sunday.

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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP-153 > Pattern & Spread Discussion

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Congrats haider sahib. Would be waiting to see a detailed review of Sargodha made shotgun with trulock chokes and also the performance of trulock chokes with MP153. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP-153 > Pattern & Spread Discussion

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@ haider
I cant wait to see how the Local Made chokes do.
These are the things that I try to encourage, is to get people in your area to make the things that you need.
You can Spur a whole new industry, I think the market is there.

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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP-153 > Pattern & Spread Discussion

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Congrats Haider bhai.

Waiting to see your pattern testing results.

And if these chokes do pass the test then we should promote this gunsmith among fellow shotgunners.

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Bolt actions speak louder than words

Sometimes adding 175 grains of boat-tailed diplomacy speeds up Peace Talks


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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP-153 > Pattern & Spread Discussion

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KBW wrote:
Congrats haider sahib. Would be waiting to see a detailed review of Sargodha made shotgun with trulock chokes and also the performance of trulock chokes with MP153. :)


@ Haider:

Very interesting chain of discussions. Perhaps I had missed reading the post that mentions the fact - would it be correct to assume that the Sargodha made shotgun is already in your hands?

What surprised me is the discovery that your particular shotgun (bbl) came off the production line out of spec and passed QC. I, personally, do not own a Baikal but I do frequent the Baikal forum at ShotgunWorld.com (US).....this is the first scenario that I've learned about where something strange like that has occurred.


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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP-153 > Pattern & Spread Discussion

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AA wrote:
KBW wrote:
Congrats haider sahib. Would be waiting to see a detailed review of Sargodha made shotgun with trulock chokes and also the performance of trulock chokes with MP153. :)


@ Haider:

Very interesting chain of discussions. Perhaps I had missed reading the post that mentions the fact - would it be correct to assume that the Sargodha made shotgun is already in your hands?

What surprised me is the discovery that your particular shotgun (bbl) came off the production line out of spec and passed QC. I, personally, do not own a Baikal but I do frequent the Baikal forum at ShotgunWorld.com (US).....this is the first scenario that I've learned about where something strange like that has occurred.


:confusion-scratchheadyellow: I'm confused? Are we talking about the infamous Baikal mp153 here?

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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP-153 > Pattern & Spread Discussion

Marksman

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We are talking about the infamous Mp153 Crete....

Ok guys..... "This is Baikal Mp153...... Made in Russia/Pakistan (Sargodha)" :)

The reason behind above statement is because the stock, chokes and boring of the barrel was done in Sargodha (Pakistan) where as the rest is original Mp 153 :D

Pic of Mp153 after customization
Image

Pic of the stock
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Image
The stock has a oil finish on it... i had an option of either lacquer or oil finish.... i preferred oil finish because it shines less in a hide out for ducks. Length of pull after the pad is 14.2, it fits perfectly. It has a cast off of about .4 inch, it comes right beneath the eye and one does not have to bend or adjust the face/neck, the bead comes under the eye beautifully.

Pic of the chokes Made by the Sargodha gunsmith (Without Trulock Chokes )

Image
Image

Story behind the chokes


During my frequent visits to sargodha, the gunsmith asked me that he can make chokes but he doesn't have a machine through which he can produce micro screw threads for Baikal, he asked me to change thread of the barrel but i refused and told him that i have already ordered chokes from states. He was willing to bet the money i was supposed to pay him for the stock and boring, so i asked him to change the constriction of Baikal original full choke and make it an Improved modified (I had already ordered one from Trulock) with an internal parallel length of at least 3", the bet was on (I had nothing to loose).....

He called me after a week for a trial..... i went and i was shocked to see the results of modified choke. Without any clustering, his modified choke gave a perfect pattern of 83 % at 40 yards with Shaheen # 4..... I WAS Surprised....

After seeing results of Turkey choke of KBW bro's, i was sort of disappointed (Sorry KBW Bro ) :| , i decided that the chokes i have ordered from states will not perform as i have in mind but then again, i have an opportunity to try out this gunsmith for desired patterns at desired ranges... I asked him to change the barrel thread/screws and make me 2 new chokes...... He made me a full choke (Flush) with an internal length of 4", IM was already working great, got an IC and a C.

Im going for patterning in about an 1. I have my figures crossed.. Will post the results

P.S....KBW, trulock chokes doesn't fit on the barrel now because i have to change the screws, already spoken to the gun smith on phone, according to him, it will take 15 minutes on both the trulock chokes to change the grooves according to new screws/thread now. I'll be going again to the gunsmith next week to fix the chokes.


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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP-153 > Pattern & Spread Discussion

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This is some great and surprising info haider bro!! Thanks for sharing the details!

Now, I'm eagerly waiting for the pattern results of all the chokes!!!

Oh, and congrats on the great setup!!

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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP-153 > Pattern & Spread Discussion

Marksman

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Im sorry guys for the late response....

I , actually, couldn't go to pick up the gun from Sargodha myself, i asked a friend for a favor.... when i got the gun, took it out for pattering, i wasn't satisfied, so i took the gun back to the gunsmith. The bore required polishing, he forgot to send the magazine spring and i needed to get the the threads fixed of trulock chokes as well.

Spent the entire Tuesday working with the gun smith to meet the desired requirements. I have made 3 stocks before myself, had no experience of metal work but i have learned a lot, did the polishing of the barrel myself, made the threads of trulock chokes, made a modified choke etc, etc. Well i didn't do the entire thing myself, we were working in shifts and ofcourse, he was supervising me :mrgreen: .

I couldn't take pics of the pattern chart because by the time we were finished with the metal work, it was too dark to take the pics with mobile. I have tried all the chokes and THEY WORK AMAZINGLY :dance: .

@ KBW, Turkey choke .670 gives an AMAZING Pattern with Shaheen # 8 at 40 Yards. The ENTIRE pattern formed within 24 inches at 40 yards which was mind blowing and was worth the effort i have put in the gun :D . I tried the pattern with Shaheen # 4 but the pattern was average, we came to a conclusion that the Shaheen # 4 wade was bit too tight and we need to try different loads to verify the results.

I will share the pattern charts this Sunday, below are few pics of work we did on the gun.

This is the machine we used for boring/polishing and making the choke
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Making threads of trulock choke
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Image

finishing the modified choke
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polishing of the Barrel
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This was a stand on which u tighten up the barrel so that it doesn't move during the polishing process

Image
We fitted a hollow metal piece in the chamber because the polishing was supposed to be done my a metal rod having a polishing sand paper at the end. The rod spins and u have to move the barrel fitted on a stand evenly by applying the right pressure.

Polishing the barrel
Image
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP-153 > Pattern & Spread Discussion

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Congratulations. Looks like your patience and effort has really paid off :)
i don't understand why #4 pattern was average when using same chokes ?


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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP-153 > Pattern & Spread Discussion

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Very nice Lathe work.
I sure could sure use a Lathe like that to fit barrels and such.
Was it cheaper to make the choke tubes, rather than to buy them ?

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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP-153 > Pattern & Spread Discussion

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@ Shariq, the wade used was very tight due to which the pattern was not forming correctly..... i'll try to post the results of Shaheen #4 as well so that everybody can compare the results.

@LAGS, it was very interesting using the lathe machine, its great fun, i didn't knew that its much more fun in making one rather then using one lol.....

I got 2 chokes from trulock which cost me around 230$ where as i have paid the gunsmith a total of 105 $ including 5 chokes, a polished stock of walnut and complete boring/polishing of the barrel.


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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP-153 > Pattern & Spread Discussion

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@ Haider
Plus you are supporting the local economy, and getting exactly what you want.

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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP-153 > Pattern & Spread Discussion

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+1 LAGS.

@ Haider,

:text-bravo:

Brother, thanks for sharing.

Quote:
I couldn't take pics of the pattern chart because by the time we were finished with the metal work, it was too dark to take the pics with mobile. I have tried all the chokes and THEY WORK AMAZINGLY .

@ KBW, Turkey choke .670 gives an AMAZING Pattern with Shaheen # 8 at 40 Yards. The ENTIRE pattern formed within 24 inches at 40 yards which was mind blowing and was worth the effort i have put in the gun . I tried the pattern with Shaheen # 4 but the pattern was average, we came to a conclusion that the Shaheen # 4 wade was bit too tight and we need to try different loads to verify the results.

I will share the pattern charts this Sunday


Eagerly waiting to see the results.

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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP-153 > Pattern & Spread Discussion

Marksman

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I went to the farm for patterning, had terrible flu but when I left home, it wasn’t that bad…. The moment I reached there, due to dust and wind, flu again attacked which resulted in running nose and watery eyes….. Anyways, I tried my best to capture the pattern charts thru my cell phone. I didn’t had any board on which I could paste the charts for proper patterning, therefore, I hanged them on the wall with a brick on top and marked a rough circle of about a partridge size in order to check how the gun will behave at different ranges…… I only had Shaheen # 4 and 8 with me.


Before
Choke:......................IM – Original Baikal
Load Size………………….Shaheen # 8
Distance:...................25 Yards
Position…………………….Standing without rest
Image


After
Choke:......................M – Made in Pakistan
Load Size………………….Shaheen # 8
Distance:...................35 Yards
Wind………………………… Light breeze from left to right
Position…………………….Standing without rest

Image
The shot was taken from 35 yards with Modified choke using # 8 shaheen. The choke was made by local gun smith from Sargodha. The pattern went up because there was a little breeze, the gun was fired in a standing position without the rest. The moment I pulled the trigger, I sneezed because I had a running nose and watery eyes but apart from the fact that the pattern went up, the slug layout on the chart is not bad I believe. SEPCIALLY as compared to what previously the gun was doing.

Before
Choke:......................IC – Original Baikal
Load Size………………….Shaheen # 8
Distance:...................20 Yards
Position…………………….Standing without rest
Image


After
Choke:......................C – After Boring and polishing
Load Size………………….Shaheen # 8
Distance:...................30 Yards
Position…………………….Standing without rest
Wind………………………… Light breeze from left to right

Image
The shot was taken from 30 yards. I have always used a slug in cylinder, therefore, I have no idea if the pattern is good or but as compared to old results, I think the pattern is not bad.

Before
Choke:......................IM – Original Baikal
Load Size………………….Shaheen # 4
Distance:...................25 Yards
Position…………………….Standing without rest
Wind………………………… Light breeze from left to right
Image

After
Choke:......................IM – Made in Pakistan
Load Size………………….Shaheen # 4
Distance:...................45 Yards
Position…………………….Standing without rest
Wind………………………… Light breeze from left to right
Image
I was delighted after seeing the results. The pattern went left as my hands were shaking a little bit due to low fever and flu.

Before
Choke:......................F – Original Baikal
Load Size………………….Shaheen # 4
Distance:...................30 Yards
Position…………………….Standing without rest
Image

After
Choke:......................Turkey .670 Trulock
Load Size………………….Shaheen # 4
Distance:...................55 Yards
Position…………………….Standing without rest
Wind………………………… Light breeze from left to right
Image
This was a HUGE SHOCK as I wasn’t expecting this result at 55 yards. I remeasured the distance again and it was 55 yards. Imagine if this is the result at 55 yards, I believe one can drop a mallard at 65 or beyond because there were 13 pellets in 3 inch by 5 inch bulls eye.

Choke:......................Turkey .670 Trulock
Load Size………………….Shaheen # 8
Distance:...................45 Yards
Position…………………….Standing without rest
Wind………………………… Light breeze from left to right
Image
The pattern went left because of the watery eyes and running nose. I was amazed to see the results because although the pattern went left but look at the density.

Guys, I bought the gun 6 months ago and wanted to use it for the season but it was a HUGE disappointment. I thought of selling the gun several times because there were hardly 2 boxes fired thru it…… but then…… I thought if I sell it off, the buyer will be screwed and I hate the feeling of being a fraud…. So, I decided to try and fix it up…..after 2 weeks, figured the boring issue….. searched for gunsmiths in Punjab, tested them, finalized the guy in Sargodha, made the stock, made the chokes, did the boring myself…… I have given it my 100%............. went to extreme that I did the metal work myself……

Now, I give up, it still requires some improvements …..


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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP-153 > Pattern & Spread Discussion

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Sir your hard work and dedication has paid off. 55 yards pattern from Trulock is amazing. Thanks for the effort of sharing.


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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP-153 > Pattern & Spread Discussion

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@ haider
You can see why I advocate you guys working on your guns yourselves.
Your results are proof positive that you can turn a So-So gun into something great.
And if you do not have the tools, the technical ability, or time, You should at least know how to seek out a GOOD gunsmith to do your work for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP-153 > Pattern & Spread Discussion

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LAGS wrote:
@ haider
You can see why I advocate you guys working on your guns yourselves.
Your results are proof positive that you can turn a So-So gun into something great.
And if you do not have the tools, the technical ability, or time, You should at least know how to seek out a GOOD gunsmith to do your work for you.



+1 LAGS.....

I'll be honest, many times i have thought of quitting and accepting the gun with its defects but then again, whenever i come to this forum, read different posts.... read ur & KBW posts, ur enthusiasm, dedication pushed me to achieve the desired results........

The best part about working yourselves is that it gives an undefinable satisfaction which is unbeatable.....

Would like to thank you, KBW and other senior members and specially SA for making such a wonderful forum/atmosphere where people like me can come and relax, learn lots of new things and on top of that, meet different wonderful ppl across the globe....

Keep up the good work


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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP-153 > Pattern & Spread Discussion

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Haider bhai, wonderful results. I am specially impressed with the quality of Sargodha made chokes. And we are all grateful to you for discovering this gentleman who can make as good a choke as any top choke manufacturer in the world, in my view.

The only problems seems to be the availability of these chokes. You took lot of pain and time going to him and getting the things custom made as per your requirement. This may be difficult for the others to do and I don't think chokes made by him are available in the market. Are they??

BTW, Trulock Turkey seems to be a wonderful choke for long range shooting but constriction .670 is too narrow. Have you tried its pattern with AAA and BB? The pattern looks very dense but that is what we should expect from a .670 constriction. For better understanding, I would also appreciate if you give the percentage of the pallets in 30" circle.

The Colonial Arms Steel Ex-Full Turkey that I had was .695 constriction. That choke has been specially designed to fire bigger shots like LG, AAA, BB etc and I observed it performed extremely well with those cartridges. The Colonial Arms Elite ported are also wonderful chokes and I have been shooting ducks with them at 50-60 M. But nothing matches the Poly Choke, carrying 9 chokes at a time is simply unbeatable.

Once again thanks for the effort and input. I foresee and good hunting season coming up. Their have been excellent rains this year in Balochistan and already, there are reports of extraordinary breeding by Chukars and see sees. With these chokes around, I can hardly wait :)

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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP-153 > Pattern & Spread Discussion

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@KBW, ur pushing me to order the poly choke now lol


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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP-153 > Pattern & Spread Discussion

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@ haider
You like playing with that Lathe, How 'Bout you try and make one ?????
I think that would be a fun project.

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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP-153 > Pattern & Spread Discussion

Marksman

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LAGS wrote:
@ haider
You like playing with that Lathe, How 'Bout you try and make one ?????
I think that would be a fun project.



@LAGS, i already have that in mind and already requested/discussed with the gun smith to make a english 12 g S/S.... i'll be doing the complete wood work myself.... trigger assembly and other technical crafting will be done by him..... rest will be done by me in his supervision.


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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP-153 > Pattern & Spread Discussion

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@ haider
I am glad to see that you share the passion for working on your own guns.
I think you and some of the other members have felt the pride in doing things with your own two hands.
Take advantage of all the instruction your gunsmith is willing to give you. That kind of knowledge will last with you forever.

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 Post subject: Re: BAIKAL MP153, 12G SEMI AUTO > Review & Pattern Testing

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KBW wrote:
hunter468 wrote:
i will add just 1 thing that never never use steel shots through the choke marked F(lead),it can ruin the choke threads and the muzzle area.

Thanks for the advice bro, you are right. Instructions with every choke contain data to this effect. BTW, I do not use steel shots. :)

i know that steel shots are hardly available in pakistan.
but i just reminded this bcz u mentioned on very first page in "barrel and choke section" that each type of choke can be used for lead as well as steel shots..........ok then thats fine brother at the end its a 5/5 rated review from my end :clap:
BTW what are the approximate custom/duty charges if i order a pair of chokes online from colonial or trulock
regards,
HAPPY AND SAFE SHOOTING


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