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 Post subject: Baikal MP-153 > Pattern & Spread Discussion

Marksman

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ok guys..... another issue.... full choke of baikal at 35 yards has hardly 30 % of the pattern on 2 by 2 feet target.... its evenly distributed with zero slugs on the bullseye.... i have tried this again and again but same.... shaheen #4 was used.....

can anybody help out?


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 Post subject: Re: FTF problem in my Baikal MP-153

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@haider

How do you compare these patterns with the ones formed by your gun. This is from 45 M with full choke, using Shaheen #4 and BB

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: FTF problem in my Baikal MP-153

Marksman

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Actually, the gun had a fitting issue, i got it tailored thru Haji Akram .... it started coming on beautifully, took it out for doves/pigeons, excellent result achieved within short range, all birds beyond 30 yards were missed or snicked, so i went to a book store and bought few white charts, placed a circle in middle of the chart for as a bulls-eye, checked the pattern from 15-20-30-35 yards with same shaheen #4 with full choke, pattern was amazing till 25, noticed a bit bigger pattern at 30 yards but when fired at 35, hardly 30% of the pattern was on the chart equally distributed.(By 30 % i mean u can actually count the number of slugs) This bugged me because the bulls-eye was around a 2 inch thick cirlce and the pattern had zero slugs near/around the bulls-eye..

It was disappointing because all game birds equivalent to partridge or dove will be missed or injured at 35 yards. I cant tell the point of aim in the above 2 pics of urs but if u notice, there is reasonable width between the layout of slugs on the chart. If u turn the first pic clockwise and put a bird inside, it will be either winged or a miss but ur shot was taken at 45 yards where as mine is forming almost the same pattern but at 35 yards which is really disappointing...

Should i try and change the choke with another baikal, retest or what? pls advice as the gun i bought was brand new but im not satisfied with the results at all.


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 Post subject: Re: FTF problem in my Baikal MP-153

Master at Arms

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Just for the comparison sake, here is the pattern formed by my Baikal IZH 27 from 30 M, but using IC choke (4). With a F choke, it made a much denser pattern from 30 M.

Image


Image


Image


During recent hunts, I missed a few easy shots with MP153 which I thought I shouldn't have. I was using Shaheen #6 with modified choke (3) at 30-35 M. However, when I shot with Eley #6 36grams, there was no miss at all, even at the distant flying shots.

Could it be the ammo??

I will have both IZH 27, MP153 along with a Browning Citori, Acer and Akkar Churchill shot from 30-45 M and see the pattern with both Shaheen, Eley and Cyprus shotshells.

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 Post subject: Re: FTF problem in my Baikal MP-153

Marksman

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Sir If I may,With all due respect.
The pattern depends upon these three variables ( if the gun is kept constant and above a respectable quality level)
The Ammo
The Choke
The Distance

Try Changing one at a time and keeping the other two constant, that should give you a fair representation of your guns patterning
Some Ammos pattern better than others and these can only be found out with actual testing of diffrent combinations.
I hope you find the perfect pattern for yours.

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Rana Rasal


Last edited by Rana Rasal Saleh on Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: FTF problem in my Baikal MP-153

Master at Arms

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KBW wrote:
J
I will have both IZH 27, MP153 along with a Browning Citori, Acer and Akkar Churchill shot from 30-45 M and see the pattern with both Shaheen, Eley and Cyprus shotshells.


That would be great. Anxiously waiting for for it.


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 Post subject: Re: FTF problem in my Baikal MP-153

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I think we have started discussing an entirely different issue here which does not go along with the topic of the thread. Can we have a new thread for Baikal MP153 Shot Patterns??

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 Post subject: Re: FTF problem in my Baikal MP-153

Marksman

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sorry guys.... i didn't mean to hijack the thread..... posting a different thread with Baikal MP 153 Pattern


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 Post subject: Re: FTF problem in my Baikal MP-153

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I think it would be easier for the mods to make a new thread for pattern testing of MP153.
Mods, please help. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Pattern Issue in my Baikal MP-153

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Done

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 Post subject: Re: Pattern Issue in my Baikal MP-153

Marksman

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Thanks admin....

@ KWB, bro if u notice your first pic, u got one slug on the bull where as rest are in 1 inch surroundings means that u will be able to drop a medium sized bird at 30 yards, where as mine has a width of at least 3-4 inches at 35 yards using a #4 with F choke...

I have lost the charts i made but i will definitely go and will make 3 different groups using geeko german, an old O/U russian and Baikal MP153.... will post the results here.....

Moreover, i have spoken to a gun smith in sargodha.... i have heard hes good..... according to him, best results are achived in Baikal MP153 by using modified choke..... F choke has a problem of overlapping the slugs which results in extra wide spread at short ranges....but before giving my gun to him, i need to know ur opinion first cuz i dont wana screw up my gun...

That being said, has anyone heard of turkey chokes or super chokes for Baikal Mp153? I asked a gunsmith to make a extra tight choke but according to him, Baikal MP153 uses micro grooving which in Pakistan is not possible at the moment.......Has anyone tried using another manufactures choke in Baikal MP153?Remington has renamed Baikal MP 153 as Remington Sparton SPR453, are they offering turkey chokes?


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 Post subject: Re: Pattern Issue in my Baikal MP-153

Marksman

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@ Haider, Sir why dont you try Modified Choke, Maybe you will get a better pattern, Since evry individual weapon behaves diffrently with diffrent Choke Ammo and Distance Combinations.

Try all of your chokes at same distance and ammo and then see the most even pattern.

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 Post subject: Re: Pattern Issue in my Baikal MP-153

Marksman

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Location: Lahore, Pakistan
Hi Rasal, bro i have tried modified as well..... it works fine for small birds..... ive tried it for duck, all shots within 40Yards are good, anything beyond that is game wastage...

I got a better idea, searched on net and found out that trulock is producing Baikal Chokes, going to place an order for M,F & XF.


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 Post subject: Re: Pattern Issue in my Baikal MP-153

Marksman

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Could you please share the site here for the rest of us to see.
And lets see what results are then

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 Post subject: Re: Pattern Issue in my Baikal MP-153

Marksman

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http://www.trulockchokes.com/cgi-bin/eS ... 5811.20373


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 Post subject: Re: Pattern Issue in my Baikal MP-153

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Today I carried out some patterning of MP 153. Results were interesting. I shot from 35 Y and aimed at the bottom of the bull. I have not given the percentage of the shots hitting inside 30" circle because I still have to count the number of pallets in each category of shell. I will do that tomorrow because I will have to open one shell of each category and count the pallets.

I also understand that this is not the ideal method of checking the pattern. The gun should have been fired at a blank sheet and 30" circle should have been drawn around the densest area of the pattern formed. However, since the purpose was to check MP153 performance and not of shot shells, I drew the circle on the sheet and aimed just below the bull every time.

Here we go..........


Shotgun:...................MP 153
Shotshell:..................Shaheen # 6, 31 grams
Choke:......................Full
Distance:...................35 Yards / 32 Meters
Pattern Density in:.......Lower half of 30" circle
No of Shots in 30"........265


Image
This is not a bad pattern at all.


Just for the comparison sake, here is the pattern formed by Browning Citori 30" O/U, shooting the same ammo from same distance with a modified choke.


Shotgun:...................Browning Citori with 30" barrel
Shotshell:..................Shaheen # 6, 31 grams
Choke:......................Full
Distance:...................35 Yards / 32 Meters
Pattern Density in:.......Lower half of 30" circle
No of Shots in 30"........265


Image Though the number of pallets in 30" circle is almost same but Citori's pattern is more evenly distributed. However, with a 30" barrel, it was expected to form a much better pattern than MP153.




Shotgun:...................MP 153
Shotshell:..................Shaheen # 8, 31 grams
Choke:......................Full
Distance:...................35 Yards / 32 Meters
Pattern Density in:.......Lower half of 30" circle
No of Shots in 30"........365


Image

Not a bad pattern with # 8 Shaheen either.


I decided to check the pattern with modified choke also and used different types of ammo. Here are the results...............


Shotgun:...................MP 153
Shotshell:..................Shaheen # 6, 31 grams
Choke:......................Modified
Distance:...................35 Yards / 32 Meters
Pattern Density in:.......Upper left half of 30" circle
No of Shots in 30"........177


Image

This time the pattern density was much more over the target. Through out with Shaheen ammo, the pattern were denser in the lower half as I was aiming below the bull. Looks like my error. I would have checked it again but was short of charts. :cry: However, you can see that there are 18 pallets in bull area (4 inch radius), which is not that bad



Shotgun:...................MP 153
Shotshell:..................Eley Hymax # 6, 36 grams
Choke:......................Modified
Distance:...................35 Yards / 32 Meters
Pattern Density in:.......Almost evenly distributed in 30" circle
No of Shots in 30"........265


Image

Eley Hymax performed the best. Even with a modified choke, the pattern is quite dense at 35 Y and is evenly distributed.


Shotgun:...................MP 153
Shotshell:..................Turkish For2A # 6, 33 grams
Choke:......................Modified
Distance:...................35 Yards / 32 Meters
Pattern Density in:.......Right lower half of 30" circle
No of Shots in 30"........130


Image

I had heard good things about this Turkish ammo and bought a box for testing. It was a 33 gram shell and very nicely made. However, it was a sheer disappointment using it. You can see the result, same shooter, same distance, same gun, same choke but what a different result.



Shotgun:...................MP 153
Shotshell:..................Shaheen # 4, 31 grams
Choke:......................Modified
Distance:...................35 Yards / 32 Meters
Pattern Density in:.......Evenly distributed in 30" circle
No of Shots in 30"........144


Image

Here is Shaheen #4. Even with a modified choke, there are 14 pallets in 4 inch radius from the bull. Almost an evenly distributed pattern


Hope this information is of some use :shifty:

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 Post subject: Re: Pattern Issue in my Baikal MP-153

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Of some use???? Sir, this practical info is of great use for any MP153 user, Browning Citori user, as well as for any Shaheen cartridge and Eley Cartridge user.

So, ahum, I guess we have the following lined up: MP153 and Browning Citori for Shotgun Reviews and Eley Shotgun Ammo for Ammo Reviews :)

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 Post subject: Re: Pattern Issue in my Baikal MP-153

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SA wrote:
Of some use???? Sir, this practical info is of great use for any MP153 user, Browning Citori user, as well as for any Shaheen cartridge and Eley Cartridge user.

So, ahum, I guess we have the following lined up: MP153 and Browning Citori for Shotgun Reviews and Eley Shotgun Ammo for Ammo Reviews :)


+1 (If I may!?!)

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 Post subject: Re: Pattern Issue in my Baikal MP-153

Master at Arms

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Excellent contribution Sir. I can just imagine how much time and effort was required for this exercise.
Thank You very much.


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 Post subject: Re: Pattern Issue in my Baikal MP-153

Marksman

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Im obliged KBW...... a very nicely put, detailed description of different loads and patterns...... l'll be going to my farm tomorrow and will post the results with 3 different guns....

Question: - My Baikal came with 3 chokes i.e. IC, M/F and F......IC and MF is for steel and lead, where as F is only for lead, how many chokes did u get?

Asking because a friend of mine got 5 chokes with the Baikal MP153. I checked the manual with my gun as well, it says MP153 has 3 chokes ...but.... my friends version has 5 chokes??????


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 Post subject: Re: Pattern Issue in my Baikal MP-153

Master at Arms

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You are welcome haider

Few years back, Baikal used to come with 5 chokes, then with 4 chokes and now it comes with 3 chokes, ie, Full (F), Modified (M) and Improved Cylindrical (IC). These makings are fro lead. When did your friend buy his 153??

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 Post subject: Re: Pattern Issue in my Baikal MP-153

Marksman

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Ok guys..... here's a comparison between Frenchi luki O/U and Baikal MP153.... The pics are not good and couldn't find a chart in the market more then 2 by 2 feet.... Therefore, i marked a circle in the middle as a bulls-eye and took the shots.

im sorry for the Pic quality as its not good

Shotgun:...................Frenchi O/U
Shotshell:..................Shaheen # 4, 31 grams
Choke:......................IC
Distance:...................35 Yards


Image


If u look at the chart, the pattern is on bit left side.... this is a firing problem, the pattern seems to be fine..


Shotgun:...................Baikal MP 153
Shotshell:..................Shaheen # 4, 31 grams
Choke:......................F
Distance:...................35 Yards

Below pattern was obtained using my gun but the choke was of another Baikal..

Image


Shotgun:...................Baikal MP 153
Shotshell:..................Shaheen # 4, 31 grams
Choke:......................F
Distance:...................35 Yards

Below charts shows pattern made by my gun using my choke


Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Pattern Issue in my Baikal MP-153

Master at Arms

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Haider bhai, the pics are not very clear and one cant say for sure. Which is the last gun??

However, as I see it, you gun is making a good pattern in the upper half and quite an ordinary one in the lower half. I suggest you aim just a few inches below the bull and you will have a very good pattern from your gun. You may try a few shots aiming a little low. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Pattern Issue in my Baikal MP-153

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@KBW:
Sir, the the patterns are evenly spread when using another Baikal's choke, but while using his own gun's choke the pattern is formed a bit on the upper side!! Can there be a manufacturing difference in both the chokes?? They're both F!

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 Post subject: Re: Pattern Issue in my Baikal MP-153

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I think the pattern with both chokes is denser in upper portion. Just by aiming a little low, this gun will give good pattern. Many shotguns give a good pattern when aimed a little low.

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