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 Post subject: THE CARTRIDGE CORNER (RIFLES)

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I wish to start a Caliber by caliber information about all popular hunting Rifle calibers. In which the history, the bullet weights and shapes their Ballistic Coefficients , Sectional Densities and Velocities along with their Use and Purpose and their popularity will be discussed individually

If there is interest I will commence very shortly. You know how I will get to know your interest.

JU


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 Post subject: Re: The Cartridge Corner

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7x57 or 7mm MAUSER

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7X57 or 7mm Mauser was designed by Paul Mauser in the year 1892 and adopted by Mexico and many other Latin American countries Armies to be used in Mauser bolt action rifles and even some machine guns. In the energy department it has almost the same power as a .270.

The 7mm has taken the biggest and most dangerous game on the planet.

In all fairness, success on large dangerous game is due mostly to the SKILL and EXPERIENCE of the hunter, Proper Bullet selection and Placement in the Vitals.

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The 7mm is a very versatile caliber, it has bullets with a very high Section Density and very high Ballistic Co-effient.

Bullet Weight & Shape SD BC

130 gr Spitzer Flat base .230 .394

145 Gr Spitzer Flat base .257 .457

145 Gr Spitzer Boat tail .257 .502

160 Gr Spitzer Flat base .284 .502

160 Gr Spitzer Boat tail .284 .556

175 Gr Mag Tip Flatbase .310 .385

175 Gr Grand Slam .310 .465

There are 130, 120 grain bullets also but these are Varmit bullets and are very destructive on edible game like chinkara etc so I have not mentioned about these lighter bullets with limited use. The SD and BC given is of Speer bullets but it is a fair guide line for other makes of bullets.

The factory ammo is loaded to only a pressure of 46000 CUP as very old rifles are in service as well; other wise when hand loaded it is clipping heels of the .270, and the Remington 7mm Express, .280, .284 win etc The 145 gr bullets can be safely fired at 2900 FPS ( with slow burning powder)

The 160 ( an ideal long range and big game bullet in 7mm) can be fired at 2800 feet per sec with proper slow powder

The 175 Grain bullet can be fired at 2775 FPS again with slow powders.
Some of the German ammo and hand loads make it preferable over even the.270 for Big game hunting (in my humble opinion because of better heavier bullets which do not sacrifice velocity when heavier bullets are used.

It is an excellent caliber with good rifles available cheaply because there was no Tax on it as late Field Marshal Ayub Khan a great hunter and Rifle man had laid this policy to encourage an armed public as a second line of defense, against our aggressive and belligrent nieghbour

It has little recoil, the rifles are light weight and very accurate.

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Two 7x57 cartridges next to a 7.5x55 / GP11 (mid), .308 Win and .223 Rem (far right)

The 7X57 has nearly identical ballistics a the .308 Winchester. The 7mm bullets of 160 grain and 175 grain have very high BC. For shooting upto 400 yds and more the 150 and 160 grain bullets are very good choices. In this case the Trajectory is as under;

When a Rifle firing a160 grain bullet @ 2600FPS is zeroed to shoot point of Aim at 300 yards the trajectory will be as follows;

100yds >>> 200 yds >>> 300yds >>> 400yds >>> 500yds
+5.1 ins >> +5.9 ins >>>>> 00 >>>> 13.6 ins >>> -36 ins

Energy at 500 yds will be 1201.6 ft lbs, Time of flight will be 0.6865 seconds

We can observe these are similar ballistics to a .308 Win Sniper Round.

I will Quote " American military Riflemen never experienced a more dramatic introduction to a cartridge. The date was June 24 1898 as the Rough Riders and Theodore Roosvelt (Late US President )advanced on foot at the start of the battle of Las Guasimas in Cuba; they were fired upon by Spanish Snipers and the US riflemen suffered the heaviest casualties in a battle in such a short time. The sound of the in comming bullets was a strange as z-z-z-z-z- rising to a crescendo then with a thud would sink into some one who moaned, the Spanish Snipers were equipped with 7X57 Rifles, where as the American soldiers at that time were equipped with 45-70 type rifles with a rainbow trajectory. " unQuote

The 270 performs very well with only the 130 gr bullets with the 140 and 150 the only other two commonly available bullets it loses its velocity and charm.The 7mm performs well with all weights and has a larger choice of available bullets alas it is only a caliber on its own with the Hand Loaders.The 7X57 spawned other cartridges like the 30-06, the 270 and all others based on these cases it is known as the GRAND DADDY of all modern Rifle Cartridges .

Questions are Welcome.

JU


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 Post subject: Re: The Cartridge Corner

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Saif wrote:
Sir, if one wants to practice target shooting in the range of 200-400yds, then which of above 7mm loads is suitable, if 7mm is suitable at all in the first place for such purpose?

What economical rifle options are available in Pakistan?

I know from some of your older posts that it is best to practice with 0.22 first to begin with, but if one can only have a single rifle, in that scenario what do you suggest regarding this callibre?


The 7X57 has nearly identical ballistics a the .308 Winchester. The 7mm bullets of 160 grain and 175 grain have very high BC. For shooting upto 400 yds and more the 150 and 160 grain bullets are very good choices. In this case the Trajectory is as under;

When a Rifle firing a160 grain bullet @ 2600FPS is zeroed to shoot point of Aim at 300 yards the trajectory will be as follows;

100yds >>> 200 yds >>> 300yds >>> 400yds >>> 500yds
+5.1 ins >> +5.9 ins >>>>> 00 >>>> 13.6 ins >>> -36 ins

Energy at 500 yds will be 1201.6 ft lbs, Time of flight will be 0.6865 seconds

We can observe these are similar ballistics to a .308 Win Sniper Round.

I will Quote " American military Riflemen never experienced a more dramatic introduction to a cartridge. The date was June 24 1898 as the Rough Riders and Theodore Roosvelt (Late US President )advanced on foot at the start of the battle of Las Guasimas in Cuba; they were fired upon by Spanish Snipers and the US riflemen suffered the heaviest casualties in a battle in such a short time. The sound of the in comming bullets was a strange as z-z-z-z-z- rising to a crescendo then with a thud would sink into some one who moaned, the Spanish Snipers were equipped with 7X57 Rifles, where as the American soldiers at that time were equipped with 45-70 type rifles with a rainbow trajectory. " unQuote

I guess I do not need to say more about this cartridge

JU


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 Post subject: Re: THE CARTRIDGE CORNER

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7mm REMINGTON MAGNUM

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The 7mm Remington Magnum introduced in 1962 is the most popular and successful belted magnum cartridge in the world.

In Africa of course the grand father of all belted magnums the .375 H&H magnum is the most successful and popular. Although the 7mm Weatherby magnum, the 7mm Mashburn Magnum and the 7x61 Sharpe and Hart are senior to it by decades but could not get the same popularity as the Rifles were European made and expansive, the ammo was also difficult to obtain. In Europe the 7x64 Brenneke is very popular.

The 7mm magnum is the best compromise cartridge for Long Range Big Game hunting. Bullets of larger diameter have to be much heavier to give good Sectional Density for penetration and higher Ballistic Co-efficient to retain high velocity at longer ranges

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Its felt recoil is not very different from a 270 Win ,a 30-06 or even a 308 Win. It fires from 110,115,120 130 140,145, 150,160,170,175 and also the 190 grain bullet.

The lighter than 120 grain bullets are not good as these have a propensity for self destruction after going a 100 yds or so , I have personally experienced this with the 120 Nosler varmint bullets designed for 7mm handgun use at 2000 FPS or so. ( Contender Pistols and XP 100 types)

I unknowingly hand loaded and fired these in my magnum and although these would make 3/4 inch 5 shot groups at 100 yds I could not find a single bullet hole on a 4x4 feet target at 200 yds, coming back to 100 yds I shot again; and again a 3/4 inch group and only then I noticed the bullet holes had Comet Tails the bullets were already coming apart and some observers told me that there is a puff of smoke just beyond the 100 yd line each time I fired. I later had this phenomenon confirmed. Very light Varmint bullets should not be fired at the Very high magnum velocities.

The best long range bullets for the 7mm magnum are between the 150 and 175 grains.

I am giving the trajectory of the 160 Grain Spitzer Boat Tail Bullet with a BC of .560 fired at an MV of 2975 FPS

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Data From Speer Reloading Manual Number 12.

The 7mm rem mag is a very versatile long range cartridge and from Urial to Himalayan Ibex to Marco Polo sheep , to Brown bear, and Neel gai one is never under gunned and never worried about the trajectory. How ever longer than 300 yds shots should only be taken with range confirmation through a Laser Range Finder and when the wind is not too strong.

I print and tape the trajectory and wind deflection on the stock and cover it with transparent tape.It comes handy.

Please Zero your Rifle at a 100 yds from a sitting position with the rifle firmly rested on a sand bag or some thing, make sure the barrel is not touching any thing and squeeze off at least two five shot groups. Bullets are never wasted on paper, you will end up firing only one good shot on game and be pleased with the out come. When using a 7mm Rem mag on small animals please use the heavy 175 grain or 160 gr bullets as these will not ruin the meat and also give you excellent trajectories .

Happy hunting.

JU


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 Post subject: Re: THE CARTRIDGE CORNER (RIFLES)

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30-06 Springfield

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The 30-06 was created after the bad experiences in Cuba in the battles of San Juan Hills. The US army hurriedly elongated the ,7X57 case by another 6mm to 63mm and increased the bullet dia from .284 (7mm) to .308 ins, the result was the 30 spring field. It was finally adopted in the year 1906 by the US Army and hence the name 30-06.

The 30-06 is the most successful battle and hunting cartridge the world has ever known. It gained popularity all over the world in a short time. It continued to rule the battle fields until the last few decades.

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It is still within the most popular 5 or 10 cartridges by the sale count all over the world.

It has taken all types of game in all continents of the world, it may be under powered for use against the Brown Bears of North America or the Buffaloe, Rhino,Lion , Leopard and Elephant in the Africas, yet all animals have been taken successfully by experienced hunters using good bullets and knowing when and where too hit. How ever it is niether recommended nor allowed by law to be used against the biggest 4 of the Big Five.

A 24 year old niece of the famous actress Ingrid Bergman , whose name is Astrid Bergman Sucksdorff of Sweden Killed a number of man eating Tigers and Leopards in India in the 1960s and she has given splendid matter of fact accounts in her book " Tiger in Sight " The Rifle she used was a 30-06 Husqvarna made in Sweden. Her book contains large number of photographs and deflates the hair raising stories told by the shikaries of yester year.
The 30-06 is the un disputable king of rifle cartridges.

Since rifles more than a 100 years old are still proudly used by great grand sons of original owners, the factory cartridges are not loaded to full potential to avoid consumer liability in the US.

Therefore the true beneficiaries of this cartridge remain the hand loaders or those who can lay their hands on the Light Magnum 30-06 Ammo by Hornady or the German ammo by RWS, or Norma or Hirtenberger.

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The excellent bullets are from 150, 165, 180, 190, 200, 220, and 250gr. The long range performers are the 165 and 180 grains.

The rifling twist of the O'6 is 1 turn in 10 inches, and it stabilises bullets heavier than 150 optimally.

The ammo is available world wide and old military ammo which is cheap is also available for target and fun shooting.

The bullets have high BC and high SD making these useful for big game.

The bullets have very good ranging qualities in the wind.

165 gr bullets can be loaded upto 2900 fps and the 180 to 2800 fps which makes it a very powerful long range round.

It has 125, 130 and 140 grain bullets as well but these shed their velocities in the air due to poor BC and no good for big game hunters so I am not even mentioning these.

There was once a surge of Accelerator bullets ( 1980s) of only 55 grains which had a neoprene sabot around these which was discarded on firing and the bullets could be fired at velocities of up to 4000 Fps but these were accurate only in some rifles and not all, also every time you change the weight or shape or make of bullet you have to re zero your Rifle and this gradually precluded the use of these accelerator rounds as these could be a couple of feet off the point of aim of a rifle zeroed on other regular rounds. I personally like the Spitzer Boat Tailed bullets of 165 and 180 grs in this cal and use Nosler Ballistic tips, or Partitions and Speer 165 grs.

We can have more on this lovely cartridge in Q&A form

Tight Groups

JU


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 Post subject: The .22 WMR (Magnum) Cartridge

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The .22 WMR (.22 Magnum) Cartridge

After reading HK300 review posted in Rifles section, I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread on .22 Magnum round. This round is not talked about much here in Pakistan and I've seen only a few people who are aware of the true potential of this rimfire cartridge. I'll be comparing this cartridge with the more popular .22lr to give a perspective to readers and to help better understand it's different aspects.

Let's start with a visual comparison of the two rimfire cartridges:

The .22 WMR Cartridge
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Courtesy: Genitron

The .22 LR Cartridge
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Courtesy: Genitron


HISTORY AND BACKGROUND

The .22 Long Rifle rimfire cartridge was first developed in 1887 by Stevens Arms Co which used the .22 Long cartridge case developed 16 years earlier, with a 40 grain round nose bullet loaded to a higher velocity than the older 29 grain .22 Long bullet. Nowadays, a 40gr High Velocity .22 LR copper-plated cartridge is capable of muzzle velocity of 1255 fps and muzzle energy of 140 ft-lbs from a rifle barrel. .22lr cartridge no doubt is currently the most popular sporting and target shooting cartridge in the world.

The .22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire (WMR) cartridge, on the other hand, was introduced in 1959 by Winchester (hence the name WMR) and it pushed the limits of pressure possible with a rimfire case. Also commenly referred to as the .22 Magnum, the .22 WMR was initially offered with 40 grain FMJ and JHP bullets with 'claimed' muzzle velocity of 2000 fps from a rifle barrel and 1550 fps from a pistol barrel and being capable of generating high supersonic velocity, these were loaded using jacketed bullets. Today the .22 WMR is available with bullet weights ranging from about 30 to 50 grains. The standard Winchester 40 grain JHP bullet is now loaded to a rifle muzzle velocity of 1910 fps with a muzzle energy of 324 ft-lbs. The 30-40 grain JHP bullets of .22WMR are best for varmint hunting.


Now some details about the .22 WMR Cartridge

As evident from the first two pictures above, the .22 WMR uses a larger case than the more popular .22 Long Rifle, both in diameter and length. The .22 WMR case is a longer version of the older .22 WRF. .22 WRF may be fired in a .22 WMR but not vice versa. The .22 WMR's case is thicker than that of the .22 LR, and therefore allows higher pressures. The combination of more powder and higher pressures gives velocities over 2,000 feet per second (610 m/s) from a rifle using a 30-grain (1.9 g) bullet, and 1,500 feet (460 m) per second (460 m/s) from a handgun. A .22 WMR round will not fit into the chamber of a .22 LR firearm but is possible to chamber and fire .22 LR rounds in a .22 WMR firearm. This is potentially hazardous due to the difference in case diameter. When fired, the .22 LR case expands in the chamber, which can cause the case to split open or become stuck. Also, the long rifle bullet will travel in the magnum chamber unsupported for .4" before entering the barrel causing leading in the chamber.

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Generally, the .22 WMR uses the same weight bullets as the .22 LR and therefore it is generally used in similar situations. The 40-grain (2.6 g) .22 WMR at 100 yards (91 m) still retains the velocity of a .22 LR at the muzzle, which can provide improved penetration at all ranges, and more reliable expansion at longer ranges with expanding bullets. If sighted in for maximum point blank range on a 3-inch (76 mm) high target, the 40-grain (2.6 g) .22 WMR can reach ranges of nearly 125 yards (114 m). This makes the .22 WMR an effective short to medium range varmint rifle cartridge. The relatively quiet sound of firing (with hearing protection) and negligible recoil also make it a very pleasant round to shoot for extensive periods of time.

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Left to Right (other known names):
.38 S&W Special
7.62x25mm Tokarev
.22WMR (22 Magnum)
.45ACP
9mm (Luger, Parabellum, 9x19mm, NATO)
.380ACP (9mm Kurzt, 9x17mm, 9mm short, 9mm Browning short)
.22LR

Courtesy: digitalperspective.org

Found this relevant trajectory chart of .22WMR:

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Trajectory of 40gr .22WMR, zeroed at 125 yards. The 150 yard marker isn't called out in the graph, but you'll note that the bullet shows about a 3" drop at that point.

Source: http://www.jesseshunting.com/articles/g ... 16/92.html


USE AND APPLICATION

Using the .22 Mag for hunting small game like rabbits and hare at close range (unless you're taking head shots) are an overkill because the power of Mag plus the expansion which the JHP round provides literally blow these small animals apart.

For self defense purposes, .22 WMR is much superior than .22 LR and .25 ACP, and makes it IMO the best of the small bore handgun cartridges. Ofcourse, there is no comparison with 9mm :)

Since it is effective till 125 yards after which the trajectory limitation comes into play, the extra destructive power of the .22 Magnum's JHP cartridge moves it into the varmint rifle cartridge class. Its low report makes it one of the best varmint cartridges for shooting on farms and agricultural land or other semi-populated areas.

The use and application of .22 WMR ammunition can be categorized into varmint hunting, small game hunting, plinking, and self-defense.

Varmint/Predator hunting - Predators, although comparatively harder to put down as compared to Varmints, can still be taken out easily with the .22WMR within its maximum point blank range of about 125 yards if the right bullet is used. Recommended loads for such shooting are the 30-40 grain JHPs.

Small game hunting - Here we're talking about edible creatures such as squirrels and rabbits. As already mentioned above, key thing in small game ammunition selection is adequate killing power to ensure a quick, clean kill without blowing the game apart. To ensure that no edible meat is wasted, headshots are best.

Plinking/Practice - Here by plinking, we are referring to informal shooting at casual targets. One can you any ammunition he/she likes for this purpose. FMJs are generally preferred for plinking. For practice, the standard 40 grain JHP is preferred due to low cost and also that one gets to practice with the ammo with which he/she wishes to hunt also.

Self defense - Rimfire cartridges are normally recommended for SD purposes, therefore, although you will find some options in concealable revolvers chambered for .22 WMR, using it for this purpose is not recommended. However, if we're talking along the lines of 'any gun is better than no gun' then a 40 grain jacketed hollow point from Winchester Super-X (maybe) would be preferable.


AMMO OPTIONS AVAILABLE IN PAKISTAN

Well, based on what I've seen and heard, the following can be bought from different cities, some easily, some not so easily ---> CCI, Federal, Remington, Magtech and Winchester. Winchester, CCI and Fed seem to be the most easily available.

Options in CCI include (those available):
Maxi-Mag - 30 grain JHP; MV 2200 fps (rifle), MV 1610 fps (pistol).
Maxi-Mag - 40 grain JHP; MV 1875 fps (rifle), MV 1425 fps (pistol).
.22 WMR Shotshell - 52 grains #12 lead shot; MV 1000 fps (rifle).

Options in Federal include (I've seen only one):
Game-Shok - 30 grain JHP; MV 2200 fps (rifle), MV 1610 fps (pistol).

Options in Remington include (again, only one seen):
22 Win Mag - 40 grain PSP; MV 1910 fps (rifle).

Options in Winchester include (the most easily available):
Supreme - 34 grain JHP; MV 2120 fps (rifle).
Super-X - 40 grain JHP; MV 1910 fps (rifle).
Dynapoint - 45 grain DP; MV 1550 fps (rifle).

--


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 Post subject: Re: THE CARTRIDGE CORNER (RIFLES)

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A very good book to get on this entire subject is "Cartridges of the World " by Frank c Barnes & Stan Skinner
I rely on this book for lots of valueable information, especially when it comes to rechambering rifles.
Check, Midway USA or Brownells to order it. It might even be available on DVD

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 Post subject: Re: THE CARTRIDGE CORNER (RIFLES)

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I will be writing about the 270 Winchester, some say it was Jack O' Conner's favourite Caliber, some say it was one of the many calibers he liked to hunt with.

Well I do dwell heavily on the book Cartridges of the World by Frank C Barnes, for historical background and statistics and also I have a collection of all Speer, Nosler and Norma reloading manuals for various data. I possess almost all popular calibers and base my comments on personnel experiences with rifles and different calibers during my Match shooting Competitions almost all over the world and hunting extensively in the high mountains of Pakistan and the African tall grass. I reload almost all calibers in rifles and hand guns and cast my own bullets for revolvers.

I will give my frank comments on it based on my experience and as observed while other hunting buddies were shooting with this caliber.


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 Post subject: Re: THE CARTRIDGE CORNER (RIFLES)

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.270 Winchester

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This caliber was introduced in 1925 in the Winchester Model 54 Rifle. it is based on the 30-06 case by necking it down and to prevent it from being chambered in a 30-06 the case is lengthened to 64 mm.

It is one of the most popular and successful hunting cartridges, specially ideal for sheep hunting except may be the marco Polo's Sheep and the Argali of Mongolia.

It fires bullets weights of from 90 grains to 150 grains

90 grain bullet.

It has BC of 0.201 to .303 and an SD of 0.186

A max velocity of about 3500 ft per sec can be achieved with this bullet and it is good for varmints being very explosive and fast out to 300m it is only good for jackals/coyotes

130 grain bullet

This is best performer of the 270 bullets at long range it has a fairly good BC of .412 with boat tail bullets and an SD of .242, this makes it suitable for thin skinned animals and ideal for sheep like Urial, Gad and Sindh Ibex

150 grain bullets

These have a good BC of .489 with boat tail bullets and .455 with flat base.
These can be fired at up to 2850 ft/sec when hand loaded these are good for most heavy boned thin skin animals like Himalayan Ibex and the Neel Gai ( World second largest Antelope )

Image

Personnel views and Comments

While the 270 is a great cartridge but the 7mm has many more options in bullet weights and shapes. The difference in bullet diameter is only .007 ( 7mms .284 in, vs the .277 of the 270 ). The 7mm has from a 120 to 190 grain options with much higher BC and SD.

Most 270s today are with 22 inch barrels which further reduces the velocity some what and in comparison the 7mm mag is much faster and even the 30-06 when (hand loaded )

In Pakistan we have a very limited bullet choice and I have seen people wound Neel Gai with several shots from a 270 firing 130 grain soft points, where as a heavier bullet like the 150 grain which is rarely available could have done the job with one carefully placed shot. Shot placement is most important but a Neel Gai big Male has a very tough skin and I have seen bullets not penetrating past the shoulder into the lung cavity. Bullets placed behind the shoulder angling towards the far shoulder are very effective.

Again although the .270 is an effective long range cartridge I have seen it some what over shadowed by the 7mm Magnum when shooting the Himalayan Ibex at long range.

For the biggest wild boars at least 150 grain bullets must be used.


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 Post subject: Re: THE CARTRIDGE CORNER (RIFLES)

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Very informative thread.


Ghazi sahab, if there are any further calibers worth reviewing, kindly write on them as well.

Ghazi wrote:
I wish to start a Caliber by caliber information about all popular hunting Rifle calibers. In which the history, the bullet weights and shapes their Ballistic Coefficients , Sectional Densities and Velocities along with their Use and Purpose and their popularity will be discussed individually

If there is interest I will commence very shortly. You know how I will get to know your interest.

JU

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 Post subject: Re: THE CARTRIDGE CORNER (RIFLES)

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I have been thinking about buying a 7x57 or the 3006 for target. Both seem to have a better performance than the 308 round. isnt that correct Ghazi sb?

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 Post subject: Re: THE CARTRIDGE CORNER (RIFLES)

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Looks like it's time to take out the Mosin Nagant from the storage.

Ghazi sahab, can you also review it and provide some ballistics data on POF made 7.62X54 rounds.

Thanks in advance.

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 Post subject: Re: THE CARTRIDGE CORNER (RIFLES)

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GunNut1 wrote:
Ghazi sahab, can you also review it and provide some ballistics data on POF made 7.62X54 rounds.
Did POF ever manufacture 7.62x54R rounds? I never knew it

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 Post subject: Re: THE CARTRIDGE CORNER (RIFLES)

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I myself was surprised but it is what their website says:

http://www.pof.gov.pk/SAA_762x54mmBallTracer.aspx

I am not sure if they are available at their outlet though.

KBW wrote:
GunNut1 wrote:
Ghazi sahab, can you also review it and provide some ballistics data on POF made 7.62X54 rounds.
Did POF ever manufacture 7.62x54R rounds? I never knew it

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