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 Post subject: Re: Caliber Review > 7.62x51mm NATO

Master at Arms

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Thanks for the information LAGS. This is M80 ball ammo. I shot it the other day with Westernfield .308 Win which is a mediocre rifle. The ammo shot in the range of around 2 MOA and it was raining when I was shooting (yes, it's raining everyday in Islamabad since the last 7-8 days, very unusual for this season though). So was I satisfied with the accuracy of the ammo.

I also noticed that the cases are of good quality and more importantly, boxer primed . Nice :)

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 Post subject: Re: Caliber Review > 7.62x51mm NATO

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If you tell me which model Western Field rifle you were using, I can tell you who made it.
Western field is just an OFF Brand or Retailers name that was made BY a Major gun Manufacture.
Generally the only negatives are the Quality of the wood for the stocks, lack of checkering, triggers and Basic sights.
Otherwise they are just as accurate and Durable as the Parrent Company guns.

But a 2" MOA out of an Off the Rack gun is pretty good.
I wonder if that rifle could be improved by TUNING

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 Post subject: Re: Caliber Review > 7.62x51mm NATO

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LAGS wrote:
@ KBW
That is, Lake City - 2007 US ammo.
A standard military issue called the M80 load
It is a 149 grain bullet going about 2700 Fps.

These loads are similar to the commercial military style PMC ammo I will be testing in the tactical rifles.

LC Brass is some of the Strongest and best for reloading.
But you will have to trim out or Swedge out the Crimp on the Primer pocket

I dont know if these loads are up to your standards, It is only a 5" mean radius accuracy at 600 yards.

Now if these were the NM headstamp ( National match ) M852
Then they would be a 168- HPBT with 42 gr of IMR- 4895 with a 3.5" mean radius accuracy at 600 yards @ 2550 FPS
This is the load I will duplicate for my Tactical rifles when I reload the PMC cases, and fine tune the load from there to match the perticular rifle.


Thanks for the information LAGS. :handgestures-salute:

I'm expecting better accuracy with this ammo in my Enfield Enforcer.... at least 1.25 - 1.5 MOA. Will try it out next Sunday and post my results.

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 Post subject: Re: Caliber Review > 7.62x51mm NATO

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@ SA
You know the specs for the ammo is 5" mean radius at 600 yards.
So if you calculate that back to the range you will be shooting , you should be able to see if your rifle is delivering the accuracy to the capability of the AMMO, at like 100 yards.

If you would please.
Could you do a side by side comparison of your POF .308 ammo.
These Both should be NATO Spec. ammo

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 Post subject: Re: Caliber Review > 7.62x51mm NATO

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@ LAGS,

Will surely do that, the comparison, between POF and this particular ammo.

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 Post subject: Re: Caliber Review > 7.62x51mm NATO

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I have heard that POF is in the process of launching a new .308 round which reportedly is "very accurate". They have probably changed the bullet design because there were lot of complaints about the accuracy potential of the current ammo.

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 Post subject: Re: Caliber Review > 7.62x51mm NATO

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Well , Lets see how accurate this one is BEFORE they change it.

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 Post subject: Re: Caliber Review > 7.62x51mm NATO

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Can any1 upload the original packing picture of NATO bullets?

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 Post subject: Re: Caliber Review > 7.62x51mm NATO

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Najmi bhai,
the pics shown in this thread in my posts are the original pics of the available ammo.
regards

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 Post subject: Re: 7.62x51mm NATO > Caliber Review

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jonnyc wrote:
As I posted on the .308 thread, the following information is essentially incorrect:

Quote:
"The SAMMI/CIP maximum pressure for the .308 Win cartridge is 62,000 psi, while the 7.62x51 max is 50,000 psi. Also, the headspace is slightly different. The .308 Win "Go Gauge" is 1.630" vs. 1.635" for the 7.62x51. The .308's "No-Go" dimension is 1.634" vs. 1.6405" for a 7.62x51 "No Go" gauge. That said, it is normally fine to shoot quality 7.62x51 NATO ammo in a gun chambered for the .308 Winchester (though not all NATO ammo is identical). Clint McKee of Fulton Armory notes: "[N]obody makes 7.62mm (NATO) ammo that isn't to the .308 'headspace' dimension spec. So 7.62mm ammo fits nicely into .308 chambers, as a rule." You CAN encounter problems going the other way, however. A commercial .308 Win round can exceed the max rated pressure for the 7.62x51. So, you should avoid putting full-power .308 Win rounds into military surplus rifles that have been designed for 50,000 psi max."


The two rounds (.308 and 7.62 Nato) are the same round. The .308 was simply developed as the civilian version of the 7.62x51. The difference between the two psi ratings is that they were measured by different devices using different scales of measurement. If you do not reload, factory .308 and 7.62 is perfectly interchangeable.


JONNY is absolutely right.
The pressures are measured on two different scales CCU and PSI, the armies usually use slightly lower pressures due to use of semi and fully automatic weapons. Some military ammo has slightly thicker case heads or webs. Military ammo is absolutely SAFE in civilian arms. The hunting rounds may give very slightly higher pressures but usually well within tolerance limits in military weapons.


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 Post subject: Re: Caliber Review > 7.62x51mm NATO

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Is POF 7.62 ammo available for sale in market?


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 Post subject: Re: Caliber Review > 7.62x51mm NATO

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I read this somewhere... and hence the research started:

"M118SB (Special Ball) was the precision/sniper ammunition, loaded with a 173gr FMJBT manufactured by Lake City Arsenal. Evidently the bullet swaging dies started to become worn and the accuracy of this bullet started to deteriorate and the DoD wanted a replacement.

M118LR (Long Range) is the current precision/sniper ammunition, loaded with a 175gr HPBT AKA: SMK or equal. This bullet evidently gave improved accuracy over the M118SB load.

They were loaded to the same muzzle velocity."

Image

This is the detail of the Sierra Match King used in the M118 ammo used by Nato. First line is the Sectional Density column, second i dont know, third is the G7 Ballistic coefficient and last is the G1 ballistic coefficient.
Here is the detailed assessment

Image

The only reason for having such details is to have precision while shooting and calculating the accuracy of a bullet to make a calculated mathematical prediction on where the ammo will land under the current conditions.

Here is the original article that i have reached:
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/20 ... match.html

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 Post subject: Re: Caliber Review > 7.62x51mm NATO

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very interesting and exhaustive, will take a couple of reads to digest all the info, thanks for sharing


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 Post subject: Re: Caliber Review > 7.62x51mm NATO

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Can any one tell anything more about POF old ammo, the Muzzle velocity it normally has and what is the BC of it?

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 Post subject: Re: Caliber Review > 7.62x51mm NATO

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Muzzle velocity will vary from gun to gun but will be in the range of 2700-2750 ft/sec. BC.... well, Ghazi sb can provide this information because POF doesn't mention it anywhere. You can see for a similar shape bullet in 150 grains in Speer, Nozler, Hornady, Barnes or Layman reloading manuals. I don't have my manuals here otherwise I would have helped you out.

regards

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 Post subject: Re: Caliber Review > 7.62x51mm NATO

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Thanks Sirjee. I only need either of them. Will contact Ghazi Sb on this.

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