THE GUN FORUM

THE GUN FORUM

Exclusively for Serious Gun-Enthusiasts and Outdoorsmen
 
It is currently Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:05 pm

All times are UTC + 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 37 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: BRNO Hybrid .308 (7.62x51) | Review and Zeroing Report

Standard Shot

Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:11 pm
Posts: 156
Location: Sanghar, Pakistan
I always wished to have a bolt action hunting rifle chambered in 308/7.62x51 being a round of my choice as this round possess better ballistics qualities. But the prices of bolt action rifles chambered in 7.62x51/308 are insanely high in this part of world. Some friends came up with the suggestion of re-barreling a rifle in to 308. The idea seemed workable but since a 308 round generates an enormous chamber pressure thus it was a genuine matter of concern to select a rifle and design to withstand the gigantic pressure of 308 round . Finally , with the help and advice of a very knowledgeable friend , located overseas , having a practical experience of gunsmithing ( One and only LAGS , our teacher) , the design of mauser 98 and caliber of 7x57 was chosen.

I had 2 rifles in 7x57 , a parker hale and a BRNO ZKK600, I always love BRNOs and selected the BRNO for rebarreling, though my friend opined that the bolt of a Parker Hale is nearer to the original mauser 98 bolt design. The integrated dovetail to mount scope was another plus in BRNO so I proceeded with it. My teacher also gave a nod and told me that the action of ZKK 600 was the standard action that BRNO used in many calibers including 30-06.

THE BARREL

The barrel of 308/7.62x51 was hardest thing to come by. Another friend told me availability of machine gun barrels, coming from Afghanistan (presumably supplied by NATO to Afghan Government Army who sale them subsequently) in the area bordering with Afghanistan. The area was extremely volatile and unstable, yet my craze for the gun drove me there. I remained there for several days and heard something horrible every day. Once a friend came to see me and on his return , his car was snatched just minutes after he left the place i was staying. Those circumstances were horrifying but finally I got the job done and the task of re-barreling was accomplished. Here is the result

Image
Image


Last edited by zain on Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: BRNO Hybrid .308. Review and Zeroing Report

Standard Shot

Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:11 pm
Posts: 156
Location: Sanghar, Pakistan
I had zeroed it several weeks ago but could not share it with you fellows . The fire arms are my passion yet there are some other matters too , as Faiz Ahmed faiz , a great leftist poet of my land says
“There are lots worries besides love
There are many other comforts besides being one with beloved”


So friends, these woes, worries and comforts of cozy cuddles are the part of life
As I have already mentioned here that we do not have the “Luxury “ of a firing range in entire region so I headed to my hunting ground situated nearly 60 kilo meters away from my home. More than a half of the road was nothing but a nightmare. It took me more than two hours to reach the destination . I had taken some glimpse en-route there. Here are few

The field with "Mustard crop" in bloom
Image
Image

The wheat crop in early stages. Fenced by using thorns to keep the wondering cattle away. Kherthar mountain range in back ground
Image


I had mounted a Redfield 6-18x44 mount on my gun . here are a few pictures of her wearing her new glasses
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: BRNO Hybrid .308. Review and Zeroing Report

Standard Shot

Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:11 pm
Posts: 156
Location: Sanghar, Pakistan
The people live in a primitive style here. Houses made from Mud. No electricity for days even weeks is a routine matter. The mobile coverage is the recent blessing of modern times but they are charged on batteries and money is charged on mobile charging. the village I went to zero the gun is situated at a buffer zone between civilization and stone age style of life as the dirt tracks end here and rough mountain tracks lead to rest of human dwellings situated deep down in the mountains . The distance is measured in nights on camel back. I had visited the caves those contain very old pictures made by their pre-historic residents. These caves of Stone Age human dwellings are located at the distance of two nights on camel back.
The modern life articles ( which are no more modern for all of any more) are a scare commodity here . Such scarcity so intense that there was not a proper table to be used as a rest. but I am used to it now and have adapted to use our cradle to grave companion, “the Cot” as a rest. This cot is very multi-dimensional tool. It is used as Chair, as a sofa, as a resting chair, as a table , as a dining table ,as a bed , as a hospital sick bed and yes, as a rest to zero a gun too. After one has breathed his last, his body is taken to grave on a cot also. Ashes to ashes , dust to dust . You may say that we are born and taken to be buried on a cot.

Due to lack of recreational facilities , everything that is done in a village is collective event and is watched upon with open eyes and dropped jaws keenly. Not only this but the event is talked about for days , weeks and months. If something extra-ordinary happens, it survives through the generation as an anecdote and every narrator adds the spices of his choice . so one has to be very careful in doing anything in any such like event if he does not want to be funny character of local folk lore :o .
I was well aware of the tradition and did not get bothered when a mob of all aged
villagers gathered around me when I started the process of zeroing my gun.

Image
Image

It is obvious that when I cannot get a table and chair to be used as a rest so there is no question of availability of paper targets and stands to hold them. So I went a traditional way
I gathered five stones, wrapped a white tissue on them and placed one at the distance of 200 meters.
The stone wrapped in white tissue to enhance the visibility
Image

Sighted the gun through bore at first stage and then inserted the bolt and fired first shot. it was bit low and on left side, so I clicked the required increments up and right and in this way in 10 to 12 shots I hit the stone . It turned in to dust. second stone was put and was hit it as well. Then I put 5 stones and loaded 5 bullets in a row and started to hit one by one. 4were hit out of 5and missed only one. There were some stones which puffed away like s smoke or powder but there were some stone stubborn enough just to bounce away having a scar of P.O.I only.

Here is one.
Image

The stone puffed away by bullet impacts. The craters caused by bullet force
Image
Image
Image

On my return I started my favorite hunt. “waterfowling with a .22LR” my friends were quick to point at Gad-walls sitting at a distance that was even beyond the reach of .22LR . the distance was no less than 225 meters . we were standing at an angle that was about 60 degree inclination and the bullet must have hit ground and there was tens of miles of un -inhabited area ahead of our fire . So I took the rifle , loaded a 7.62x51 round in it , put the gun on the roof of my vehicle and aimed . At the very same moment, the bird I was aiming at, started to feed. It was moving randomly and was very hard to shoot . I kept waiting in that posture for nearly 6 to 8 minutes and finally the bird started to move in straight line of my fire . I aimed at his “dead centre chest “and fired. I saw , in scope the bird blowing up with the power of bullet and turned to its side. It was retrieved by my hunting buddies and this is what remains out of it.

(GRAPHIC)
Image
Image
Image


Last edited by zain on Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: BRNO Hybrid .308. Review and Zeroing Report

Standard Shot

Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:11 pm
Posts: 156
Location: Sanghar, Pakistan
We proceeded further and saw other birds at the nearly same distance. These birds were sitting quietly. I again aimed at one and fired. This time the bullet just zipped through it. Perhaps the difference between the result of two shots is caused by movement and stationary states of birds .These two shots made me to feel intoxicated for several days .
While at the village I saw a sig Saur bolt action 308 rifle which one of the resident of village had one in a long range shooting competition few days ago. I did not have the chance to shoot it side by side mine as the owner was not there and he had zeroed his rifle at the palce in same manner by hitting the stones . I didn’t miss , however, the chance of photographing the same side by side . The bolt of this rifle is not a traditional mauser action rather a push feed as shown in photographs.
Image

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


Image


Last edited by zain on Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: BRNO Hybrid .308. Review and Zeroing Report

Site Admin

Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:58 pm
Posts: 7950
Location: Karachi, Pakistan
Wow! Thanks for sharing this report with us. Will be going through it in detail during the evening and will share my views.

_________________
Parcham-e-sitāra-o hilāl, Rahbar-e-taraqqī-o kamāl, Tarjumān-e-māzī, shān-e-hāl, jān-e-istiqbāl!, Sāyah-e-khudā-e-zu-l-jalāl

Bolt actions speak louder than words

Sometimes adding 175 grains of boat-tailed diplomacy speeds up Peace Talks


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: BRNO Hybrid .308. Review and Zeroing Report

Master at Arms

Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:02 pm
Posts: 5253
Location: Karachi, Pakistan
What a treat to read this thread. Really enjoyed it. Would love to see it paper target accuracy if possible.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: BRNO Hybrid .308. Review and Zeroing Report

Moderator

Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:57 pm
Posts: 4721
Location: Islamabad
@ Zain, what a beautiful review and an equally beautiful rifle. Loved the Rifle rest most of all ;)
The Sig Sauer is also a real beauty.
That bird has a big hole in it.
Congratulations.

_________________
Nostalgia kills, sometimes.... so do Guns :-)


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: BRNO Hybrid .308. Review and Zeroing Report

Regional Ambassador - Multan Chapter

Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:59 pm
Posts: 852
Location: Multan
Really a graphic composition,, well done brother,, I think I will cut and paste this review because I have the same Hybrid rifle,, ;)

_________________
Guns for peace


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: BRNO Hybrid .308. Review and Zeroing Report

Site Admin

Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:58 pm
Posts: 7950
Location: Karachi, Pakistan
I really liked the rifle rest. All three of them.

_________________
Parcham-e-sitāra-o hilāl, Rahbar-e-taraqqī-o kamāl, Tarjumān-e-māzī, shān-e-hāl, jān-e-istiqbāl!, Sāyah-e-khudā-e-zu-l-jalāl

Bolt actions speak louder than words

Sometimes adding 175 grains of boat-tailed diplomacy speeds up Peace Talks


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: BRNO Hybrid .308. Review and Zeroing Report

Standard Shot

Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:35 pm
Posts: 185
Location: Karachi
Congratulations on a job well done and and excellent write up. Please do share paper targets whenever possible also.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: BRNO Hybrid .308. Review and Zeroing Report

TGF Market Guru

Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:33 am
Posts: 1688
Location: Karachi, Pakistan
Sooo U r a rifle enthusiast and a historian and culture afactionade all rolled into one...

Your posts are few and far b/w but well worth the effort..

A humble Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee (from my side)

_________________
Our lives begin to end the day we stop caring about things that matter!
(Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.)


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: BRNO Hybrid .308. Review and Zeroing Report

Marksman

Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:51 pm
Posts: 276
Location: Karachi
Zain Bro. First of all Congrats for your quest of .308 Rifle. Cannot express my feelings of the sheer joy and enjoyment of reading this awesome article or post from the son of soil. Our land of great culture and Prehistoric sites is yet to be properly explored or discovered. It has developed a burning urge in me to visit these place, meet these people. photograph it and write about it.

P.S. I feel very good for you brother that this Hybrid .308 project was done successfully and safely. Still remember the flare and passion in your eyes when you were telling about it when we met sir. Bravo :text-bravo:

_________________
Mung yu da khyber zalmi
Pukhto zamunga shaan dai
Munga pukhtana yu
Pa Watan zaan qurban dai


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: BRNO Hybrid .308. Review and Zeroing Report

Regional Ambassador - Multan Chapter

Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:59 pm
Posts: 852
Location: Multan
Zain brother, I suggest you also try LC Nato ammo,, it is better than POF old one,,, newer lot of POF 2013 onwards gives best results in it.....,,,,
plz post paper targets whenever possible,,,,, Happy Shooting. :violence-snipersmiley:

_________________
Guns for peace


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: BRNO Hybrid .308. Review and Zeroing Report

TGF Managing Committee

Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:08 pm
Posts: 1256
Location: Karachi
Excellent and enjoyed reading every single word and pictures are also speaking themselves. That's all I can say

_________________
This battle is over when I say it is over.
Spartan


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: BRNO Hybrid .308. Review and Zeroing Report

Master at Arms

Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:31 pm
Posts: 7421
Location: Islamabad, Pakistan
I really like the style of this review and I know it would have taken quite some time to write it. Thanks for the effort Zain bhai.

The rifle looks great and I am glad the project was completed, despite few hiccups.

BTW, caves with pre-historic paintings..... is it a registered archaeological site or nobody knows about it? Are there many such sites there. (I would request not to mention the exact location on open forum). It's really sad to see such archaeologist treasures going wasted and smuggled out of Pakistan by artifact thieves, later to be displayed in personal collections and museums outside Pakistan.

Once again, thanks for the treat. :)

_________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: BRNO Hybrid .308. Review and Zeroing Report

Marksman

Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:51 pm
Posts: 276
Location: Karachi
Zain bro. now one question remains unanswered. What happened to the barrel of BRNO.
where is it now and to whom it belongs to sir ;)

_________________
Mung yu da khyber zalmi
Pukhto zamunga shaan dai
Munga pukhtana yu
Pa Watan zaan qurban dai


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: BRNO Hybrid .308. Review and Zeroing Report

Site Admin

Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:58 pm
Posts: 7950
Location: Karachi, Pakistan
Mustanir wrote:
Zain brother, I suggest you also try LC Nato ammo,, it is better than POF old one,,, newer lot of POF 2013 onwards gives best results in it.....,,,,
plz post paper targets whenever possible,,,,, Happy Shooting. :violence-snipersmiley:

There are two type of LC NATO Ammo in our market, with the following two stampings:

1) LC + 07 (with 07 being year of production and the + is the "Nato cross")

2) LC LR 07

LC M118 - Packing and Stamping:

Image
Bullet weight ranges from 172-175gr.

Image

LC M118 Long Range - Packing and Stamping:

Image

Image

Image

In the LR, you get a 175gr Sierra Match King bullet as well as a different powder from the M118, less sensitive to temperature variations. The Ammo is loaded at Federal Cartridge Company and Federal has designed a new match case based on their Gold Medal Match casesfor this LR ammo. Federal also uses their Gold Medal Match primer for this load.


Till about a couple of months back (last time i checked), the M118 was still available in Peshawar and beyond for Rs. 50 a pop. The M118 LR, although a little difficult to find, is generally sold in Karachi between Rs. 100 to 120, at least that was the rate I got for a few hundred of these in Dec/Jan.

Try to get Lake City's LR ammo. :)

_________________
Parcham-e-sitāra-o hilāl, Rahbar-e-taraqqī-o kamāl, Tarjumān-e-māzī, shān-e-hāl, jān-e-istiqbāl!, Sāyah-e-khudā-e-zu-l-jalāl

Bolt actions speak louder than words

Sometimes adding 175 grains of boat-tailed diplomacy speeds up Peace Talks


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: BRNO Hybrid .308. Review and Zeroing Report

TGF Market Guru

Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:33 am
Posts: 1688
Location: Karachi, Pakistan
A question.. A question...

Are such barrels still around. and if so which one is better? German or Americana? With regards to accuracy and durability?

_________________
Our lives begin to end the day we stop caring about things that matter!
(Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.)


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: BRNO Hybrid .308. Review and Zeroing Report

Site Admin

Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:58 pm
Posts: 7950
Location: Karachi, Pakistan
@ ED,

One original GE (General Electric) manufactured barrel for .308 caliber for the M134 Galingun (Minigun) is available with length: 22”

This particular barrel has a life of 100,000 rounds.

Pictures:

Image

Image

Image

_________________
Parcham-e-sitāra-o hilāl, Rahbar-e-taraqqī-o kamāl, Tarjumān-e-māzī, shān-e-hāl, jān-e-istiqbāl!, Sāyah-e-khudā-e-zu-l-jalāl

Bolt actions speak louder than words

Sometimes adding 175 grains of boat-tailed diplomacy speeds up Peace Talks


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: BRNO Hybrid .308. Review and Zeroing Report

Moderator

Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:57 pm
Posts: 4721
Location: Islamabad
@ SA, I have seen this ammo being used in sniper rifles. I think it is called as HPBT. Hollow point boat tail. However, from what I know this is not the Hollow point which expands on hitting the target, rather for accuracy purposes.

_________________
Nostalgia kills, sometimes.... so do Guns :-)


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: BRNO Hybrid .308. Review and Zeroing Report

Standard Shot

Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:11 pm
Posts: 156
Location: Sanghar, Pakistan
My gun has a German Machine gun barrel and yes they may be around but to reach them is the real issue.
So far as superiority of American or German Barrel with regard to accuracy and durability is concerned, I tell you that I went to gunsmith with a powerful reference (Sufarish) . He had some American barrels with him at that time too. When I insisted him to use an American barrel , he said “ Me to khshi se aap ko American Barrel de deta, Magar aap k leye jis dost ne sufarish ki he , aus ko kia moo dekhaoon ga. Aap German le len wo ek hi dana para he , wo American se boht behtar he ye. ye bull barrel he ”. So this was the opinion of a person who has been dealing with these things since years , as such I don’t have any experience with an American one.The gunsmith is reportedly at abroad now a days
The barrel that is used in my gun has a consistent and uniform thickness of several MMs from chamber to muzzle, thus the bullet travels under same atmosphere since breach/ chamber to crown . It had a length of 22 inches . Half inch was consumed in creating a recessed crown


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: BRNO Hybrid .308. Review and Zeroing Report

Regional Ambassador - Multan Chapter

Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:59 pm
Posts: 852
Location: Multan
@ Zain Tusi great ho,, you are right in your choice of gunsmith and he has suggested the best to you,,, in American barrels "The Throat" is a little away from the tip of the bullet,, most probably for reducing chamber pressure in continuous firing conditions and of course an MG barrel is not expected to be a tack driver.
I had to further ream my gun's Americano barrel to 0.25 of an inch to get what I wanted to get.

_________________
Guns for peace


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: BRNO Hybrid .308. Review and Zeroing Report

Regional Ambassador - Multan Chapter

Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:59 pm
Posts: 852
Location: Multan
I think for this purpose the Gatlin barrel is the best,,, if I had to do it again,, I will do it with a Gatlin barrel,,, it is hard and accurate,, that's what I have heard of it.

_________________
Guns for peace


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: BRNO Hybrid .308. Review and Zeroing Report

TGF Market Guru

Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:33 am
Posts: 1688
Location: Karachi, Pakistan
Machine gun barrels are designed for long life and rapid fire. I.e showering bullets since MGs are primarily meant for suppression rather then sniping IMHO.

_________________
Our lives begin to end the day we stop caring about things that matter!
(Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.)


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: BRNO Hybrid .308. Review and Zeroing Report

Master at Arms

Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:31 pm
Posts: 7421
Location: Islamabad, Pakistan
Enigmatic Desires wrote:
Machine gun barrels are designed for long life and rapid fire. I.e showering bullets since MGs are primarily meant for suppression rather then sniping IMHO.
That is correct that machine gun barrels are manufactured for long life and rapid fire (hence thick barrels). However, barrels do not have the capability of showering bullets. They are made for a specific ammo and they just shoot it out of the muzzle in same direction every time. There are gas ports in the MG barrel which the gunsmith will close while building the rifle. Otherwise, there is no difference in the barrels from shooting point of view. Of course the chambers are to be reamed with precision, using correct tools. If the rifle is built correctly by a competent gunsmith, it will be accurate. My rifle shoots a 0.75 group and has an H&K german barrel. However, if the gunsmith is not good and reliable, one should be ready to loose his eyes and facial beauty. :)

_________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 37 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC + 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Template made by DEVPPL -
phpBB SEO