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 Post subject: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

Standard Shot

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AOA all,

due to current situation, it seems necessary to carry a handgun with oneself for S.D. Since i move alot from place to place, i am in need of a compact handgun that i could carry strapped with myself. I already posses various handguns but they are too large to carry like my NP22 AND TT.

One more requirement is a polymer frame weapon because most of my weapons suffer from excessive grips discoloration and rust accumulation due to day to day use.

I would like seniors members to give there two cents on the choice of a reliable and durable CC handgun with polymer frame in price bracket of +- Rs75000/-


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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

Marksman

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Well, if you are going to consider non poly handguns you can consider a Makarov Mp442 9 x 18 ...or if you lucky enough to find a non lemon Taurus then you can consider a 709.....If you are going to consider increasing you budget then CZ Rami can also be considered...

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

Standard Shot

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Thanx for ur response... Brother I considered cz rami but its extremely small in my huge hands. How well is Taurus 709 compared to Taurus pro 24/7?


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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

Master at Arms

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709 is really small. You wont be able to handle it properly if you have large hands.


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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

Master at Arms

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A non lemon 809C may be considered.


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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

Marksman

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Taurus Pro 24/7 is a large frame handgun where as 709 is a complete CC weapon but as HMR said, its a handgun with a very slim profile and person with even medium sized hands has to adjust his pinky finger he is not going to find room on the grip.... 809 is also a good option but again as HMR said, a non lemon version...

would you consider a Snubby..? A 357 Mag..?

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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Why not a CZ compact?
In polymer P07 Duty, but it's slightly bigger.

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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How about MC Compact?
It has a good grip, plus a low profile frame easy to carry and conceal too...

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

Standard Shot

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One thing I have noticed again and again in fellow brothers post is the term non-lemon.. Is taurus quality that bad?


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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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Mohammad,

Its not the fellow brothers, its actually the Taurus guns. Firstly, they do not have that big of a variety of guns to suit each need. But then one can argue this statement.

Secondly, the internal mechanism really does give out sooner rather than later. 809 and 24/7 are two that I personally know of giving problems in a vast majority. Then there are others too that have different problems. If you compare purpose to purpose guns from Taurus and CZ, you can see a major difference in quality, availability, functionality as well as durability. 1911 Taurus is one gun that has made a landmark, but then a company is not known for a single weapon, that too of .45 ACP. Even the Chinese Norinco 1911 is worth keeping as a EDC SD, and has a very accurate shot. It is proven to last long, and members have actually used this weapon of upto 8 different pieces (as per my knowledge) and has always commented it as an "accurate" weapon.

Taurus being the brand name, and the actual name itself keeps the customers enquiring about it more, rather than purchasing it...


My 2 cents...

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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NaveedGhani wrote:
Mohammad,

Its not the fellow brothers, its actually the Taurus guns. Firstly, they do not have that big of a variety of guns to suit each need. But then one can argue this statement.

Secondly, the internal mechanism really does give out sooner rather than later. 809 and 24/7 are two that I personally know of giving problems in a vast majority. Then there are others too that have different problems. If you compare purpose to purpose guns from Taurus and CZ, you can see a major difference in quality, availability, functionality as well as durability. 1911 Taurus is one gun that has made a landmark, but then a company is not known for a single weapon, that too of .45 ACP. Even the Chinese Norinco 1911 is worth keeping as a EDC SD, and has a very accurate shot. It is proven to last long, and members have actually used this weapon of upto 8 different pieces (as per my knowledge) and has always commented it as an "accurate" weapon.

Taurus being the brand name, and the actual name itself keeps the customers enquiring about it more, rather than purchasing it...


My 2 cents...



Taurus pt92 / 99 in 9mm is highly reliable gun

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

Marksman

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SR... I second you on that from my own personal experience.... They are very well built, very accurate and very reliable...excellent weapon

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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@all
This thread is regarding opinion of members on a Conceal Carry handgun. I would request all to stay on the topic. There is no restriction on opening new threads and we may like to open a new thread in the handgun section to discuss the quality of various handguns produced by a certain manufacturers. Thanks :)

Mohammad
brother IMHO you first have to decide that whether you want a CC gun (a gun that you can conceal while carrying it) OR you want a gun that fits your hands the best? Sub-compact CC guns usually never ever fit the hands as well as a full size or compact size gun (unless one has the hands of a 10 years old kid) and therefore, one has to learn how to grip them. And if one feels that the gun must fit into the hands properly than he should not look for the sub-compact guns because they wont fit into the hands that well.

Sub-compact guns have all the disadvantages. ie, they won't fit the hands well, they wont be that accurate, their mag capacity will be less, they will never be as balanced as a large size gun, sights won't be that good / sight radius will be less etc etc. However, they are not manufactured to excel in one of the above mentioned aspects. They are manufactured so that a person can carry them in a concealed manner in the lightest clothing that he wears (summer clothing, usually). To achieve that purpose, they have to be very small and slim.

There is a difference in a Carry and a Conceal Carry gun. While any gun can be carried with a proper rig, the purpose of CC gun is to be carried in a concealed manner. Please do analyse your requirement again. Do you need a gun that should remain concealed when you are carrying it or you can do without it? If answer is that it is more important to conceal the gun while you are carrying it than you will have to accept a small size gun and then, adjust with it (two finger grip, whatever). But you know your requirement the best. Just my two cents :)

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

Marksman

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KBW, you wrapped it up quite well, else we were just drifting away with the talks... I too my self am considering a Conceal Carry gun, but like you mentioned.... just trying to determine my exact requirement so that I proceed accordingly...

Its very easy to conceal my Caracal F with a IWB hoslter but being a full size weapon, the gun shows very prominently if you bend even a bit. (BTW I carry 3 0 clock)

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

Standard Shot

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Thank you all for your valued responses. @ KBW

My requirement is a concealed carry handgun that I can carry with myself without anyone noticing it. It becomes more essential in summer. As u rightly said, for that purpose grip size, balance all has to be compensated for its size. Any more suggestion about choice of gun


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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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Deathrow wrote:
Its very easy to conceal my Caracal F with a IWB hoslter but being a full size weapon, the gun shows very prominently if you bend even a bit. (BTW I carry 3 0 clock)

So you'll just have to keep standing all the time and not bend. That'll solve the issue.

@ Mohammad,

My suggestion is either one of CZ Rami or CZ P01 (75D Compact). The earlier is preferable because it's smaller than the later.

Stay away from Taurus compact offerings.

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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Mohammad brother.
For quite a few years, I carried a Makarov PM. Rami and other double stack subcompact guns though small enough in length are too thick and do not fulfil the CC requirements that you are talking about. Any gun bigger than Rami is very difficult to conceal. Well if you change all your life style just to conceal a gun than it may be possible (though not fully) but I don't consider it a genuine CC. Makarov PM is much more concealable (with single stack mag, NOT THE DOUBLE STACK ONE). For SD, 7-8 rounds in the mag are sufficient and one may carry two extra mags which being single stack are quite slim. It conceals easily in a belly holster.

There are hardly any genuine CC guns available in Pakistan, primarily because we are over-fascinated with double stack mag guns and their are no buyers for single stack guns. We somehow feel that more number of rounds enhance our ability of SD. Till the time we don't come of this thinking (which is not supported by the fact / figures), we wouldn't see many genuine conceal carry guns in Pakistan. Other options are in .32 ACP (few old Beretta, Astra and similar guns) but I would prefer a Makarov PM over them. Kahr makes excellent CC guns in 9x19 Luger and specialises in the field but most Kahr pistols are not available in Pakistan. Look for a used one....

regards

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

Marksman

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Whats the availability and price range for Makarov PMs..? and what guidance with respect you what we should be looking for while purchasing one...?

I do not have much first hand experience of Conceal Carry Pistols but I also felt that Makarov PM fills that purpose perfectly in Pakistan but was not sure...

KBW, now with the your recommendation, I am very convinced that it is a very good and affordable option for a Conceal Carry Pistol. Also I believe that this pistol is extremly accurate since its mechanism is blow back?

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

Marksman

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Buy a baikal single stack mak.original mak near impossible.


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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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Makarov is an outstanding handgun, better than so many that we use nowadays. You can also buy MP442 in single stack version. It's good. Makarov mags can be easily obtained from anywhere in Peshawar, Lahore etc. Shouldn't be a problem. Local made mac mags are also available but they need to be checked thoroughly before use for their reliability.

regards

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

Master at Arms

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Mohammad bro
Is Makrov MP-442, in 7 rounds capacity, available in Peshawer?


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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

Marksman

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Get a CZ Rami or Makarov.

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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Had to make same decision recently. Owned a 709 but just never felt right in hand so it got replaced very early. Stoeger was bulky for EDC. So when it came for a 'wardrobe update', Stoeger & .357mag snubbie were out, and now Walther P22Q and new purchase MP442 12 shot (being 6ft'er this double stack is comfy to CC with no print) are assigned EDC's.

MP442 (12 shot), for me has an ideal grip ... 8 shot was not as good in grip. Fixed barrel and good accuracy, cheap'ish ammo (25rs a pop for chinese ammo), very decent recoil, overall a very nice pistol that is easy to maintain too.

Saying that, the most comfortable EDC I found to be is Walther P22Q ... my personal favourite and very accurate.

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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HMR wrote:
Mohammad bro
Is Makrov MP-442, in 7 rounds capacity, available in Peshawer?

Mazhar Alam, 42 k.

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

Master at Arms

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6S 7 shot confirm?
Thanks in advance.


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