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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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Not sure, I think so.

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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Ok. I will call to confirm.


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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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trigger guard on Mak is way too big and the ugliest part of a rather sleek gun ... and the trigger has a lot fo creep, rattles around (in fact, one can do circular motion with it!) ... so I have stripped the full MP442 now and operating on it ... hopefully it will get better or become useless ...

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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I don't have any experience of MP442 however I have carried Makarov PM for a long time. The trigger guard has a purpose, hence the size. The trigger of Makarov PM is one of the best I have seen for an SD gun. A little heavy (so it should be for an SD gun) but very crisp with no creep at all. Makarov is a wonderful gun but it never got the place it deserves amongst the list of best handguns ever manufactured. Had it been manufactured in a western country, we would have had different views about it, I am certain. After all we follow what the gun forums and reviews in the West say.....

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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MP 442 Triggers are nothing to write home about. A lot of pre travel, creep and some triggers have circular play in them. First non local handgun trigger to have such movement.


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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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I think it does the job of a CC gun pretty well. Up to 15 M it shoots well. I did some practical shooting with it a while ago with encouraging results. Trigger may have play but then it does the job.

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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This tells me that MP442 is not as well made as the original Makarov PM. My experience given above is related to Makarov PM.

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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So how well is a Makarov PM compaired to the commonly available Baikal MP442

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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KBW wrote:
This tells me that MP442 is not as well made as the original Makarov PM. My experience given above is related to Makarov PM.

Sir please elaborate. Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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I would say a Makarov is much lighter, and is easily concealable...makes it better than Bikal. And boy is it accurate!

A student of mine, is coming from Hyderabad, will be with me for a couple of weeks. He has a Makarov, will bring him to the range someday for the members to check it out :)

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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MOD EDIT: All post related to MP 446 Viking shifted to Viking thread. Please stay on the topic which is Opinion on a CC handgun.

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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MOD EDIT: Issues related to a problem in MP 442 shifted to the relevant thread in Handgun Review Section (http://thegunforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=1131). This thread is dedicated to discussion on CC handguns.


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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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NP 42 has proven track record for not having a single issue which includes FTF, FTE, jamming etc. There are number of NP 42 users on the forum including myself and all are satisfied.

IMHO one should start with medium to low price gun and again I stress to go for NP 42 in start. The user then should get familiar with the gun by shooting it on the range and suggest to do at least 4-5 sessions, during first session user will learn the basics like gripping, feel of the tecoil and can also be mentored how to shoot well (if assisted by a senior at range)

Next three sessions will not improve shooting skills and gun handling will then become part of instinct. By then one would be judge of his own mistakes and will keep on improving.

Coming back to the topic NP42 is equally good for CC as its not bulky, light in weight and have safety features as well plus a reliable companion.

Once you have used it and kept it for sometime it is understandable that an itch for upgrade is developed so is the case with me as I feel attracted to CZ but it would not be easy to part with my first love and I might opt CZ on a new licence. So it will remain companion and CZ will be used for ranges only.

Trust me NP42 fix anywhere in your daily wear like jeans n T shirt and there ate ocassions when it was carried in the pockets of jeans without being noticed. Owing to this I suggest this gun is best for CC.

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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MOD EDIT: CF98/NP42 related discussion shifted to the relevant thread in Handgun Review Section. (http://thegunforum.net/viewtopic.php?p=78574#p78574).

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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CF98 is a fine gun (for its price) but I find it hard to categorise it as a conceal carry gun. Well even an AK47 can be concealed inside a chadar by a big guy but that doesn't classify it as a conceal carry gun.

When we talk of conceal carry guns, essentially we are talking about small and slim guns which are generally less than 6 inches in length and around 1" or less in width that can be concealed by a person in routine clothing.

CC guns are essentially sub-compact guns like Kahr PM9, Kahr PM45, Kahr TP9 & K9, Glock 26, Sig P938, Ruger Mini, Makarov PM, CZ 92, CZ 2075 Rami and the likes. Out of these, Glock 26 and CZ Rami have double stacked mags which make them less concealable as compared to other guns which are single stacked.

One can carry any gun he feels like and winter dresses allow bigger guns to be carried. Just my two cents.

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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When you say CONCEAL CARRY, does a gun in pocket count as conceal carried? or does it have to be in a CC cover to be considered as concealed?

If its considered concealed in pocket, then yes I would agree to you that a gun with such dimensions would be practically easier to carry and considered specifically for CC. However, if a CC cover is a necessity for CC then any gun that can fit a mans hand properly and lighter in weight can be a viable option for conceal carry. Personally speaking, a gun like Rami would not fit my hands in any way even with a dual stack mag, hence the individuality factor comes into play...my 2 cents :)

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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We had this discussion many times earlier and even in this thread.

Conceal carry gun means a gun that is not visible once carried on person. Carrying could be in pocket, in a rig or any other way which can conceal the gun completely, not showing any prints on the dress. In our environment which is warm / hot most time of the year, it is the summer dress that sets the standard for a conceal carry gun.

We need to understand the difference between a carry gun and a concealed carry gun. A concealed carry gun doesn't have to be visible and obviously the person carrying it doesn't want the people to know that he is carrying a gun. What would be such a situation.... a gun battle in the field. No, it would, more often than not, be an intimate close gathering where a person would be shooting to save his life and it would mostly be at a very short distance; may be just few feet.

We are not talking of a range gun here where we want a proper grip / proper stance and neither are we trying to shoot in the 1" bull from 25 M. If one wants to carry a gun that others should not be able to detect, it has to be as small as practically possible. The person is not looking for accuracy, balance, hold, sight radius, capacity and other similar things. What he is looking for is a small size and 100% reliability. Well it's not easy to shoot a small size gun so the shooter learns to hold a small gun in his hands and practices to shoot with a modified grip. And there are ways of shooting a smaller gun, quickly and effectively, when needed.

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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After I posted, I went through the thread and was actually expecting this reply from you lol.

Cheers though, it is always a good reminder when you quote as such :)

BTW - my student is coming tomorrow from Hyderabad to spend a few weeks with me. Am excited as he was one of my inspirations to procure the weapon seeing his sense of responsibility and the ease at which he carries. Currently he has a Makarov and is looking to get the DSA Trushot...

Will take him to the range and see how worthy he is of his arms ;) and I doubt he has been to a proper range before as there are not many in Hyderabad...

:)

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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I will be getting a fair bit of the modification work on my MP442 this weekend (may go beyond a day or two) ..... and will post an update on my diy gunsmith thread. It will transform the trigger etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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Makarov bullet have less power than 9*19?


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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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Yes Makarov is 9 x 18.

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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if price is not a problem the a glock 17 for SD/HD but remember carrying a 290k handgun is a security risk rather than a deterrent

for around 50k i have two options if your going to shoot abt 1000 rds in a life time buy a cf98 for around 40k but if you shoot a lot buy a B6
it has a forged barrel and a forged slide it just keeps on going i have fired over 5000 rds from a single gun and its great intend to take it up to 25000 rds from it , plus it reliable a little water carbon dust will not bother it . as soon as i crossed 4000 rds and accuracy is as good as a new one i bought it for personal carry . CF98 well its not the same thing once you hit the 2500 rds mark

now if you want to go for a middle price gun CZ duty is great out standing trigger (thanks for ghazi sahib he picked my gun ) and accurate
sp01 heavy for carry if you ask me . but shadow at range is out standing
shadow compact looks very interesting but i will not comment cause i have only fire abt 50 rds on it but it looks promising

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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Makarov in this price in this price range . Add another 50 k and u think ramii. PT 145 is another option


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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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makarov is a fine gun i have a soviet era one but i dont use it that much cause of ammo any way how much is a mack ammo for now a days
any way i hate compact versions like the glock 19 or rami stuff its fine if you engaging some one up to 15 20 meters but it will perform very poorly at 50 60 meters , and i know 90% of handgun combat takes place in 5 to 10 meters but why take a chance i i am carry like tatical versions lol like the sp01 or glock34 but then thats just me i have carried a lama for a long time pepole said .32 this .32 that but i have not seen any one who has been shot by a .32 and enjoyed it but that was the time when i could not get my hands an a full length tatical wepon
how ever if CC is a must then in market G17 19 MAKARO and B6 would be my options

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 Post subject: Re: Need opinion for a CC handgun.

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POF wrote:
.........any way i hate compact versions like the glock 19 or rami stuff its fine if you engaging some one up to 15 20 meters but it will perform very poorly at 50 60 meters , and i know 90% of handgun combat takes place in 5 to 10 meters but why take a chance i i am carry like tatical versions lol like the sp01 or glock34 but then thats just me i have carried a lama for a long time
POF brother. Your hatred against Glock 19 or Rami stuff of compact nature will not reduce the utility of these weapons for the purpose for which they have been designed. :)

Muhammad brother started this thread to get views of members on a conceal carry handgun and not for a carry gun. In conceal carry handguns, concealment is top priority and in order to achieve concealment, shooter is willing to compromise on other essential aspects like accuracy, mag capacity, hold, range etc, if required. Conceal carry requirement differs from person to person and from area to area. Like a 6ft 5" well built person and a 5ft 6" slim person have different capacities to conceal a gun with regard to size. Then, the attire will also matter and winter attire will allow better concealment. etc etc . Therefore....... different person have different CC requirements and preferences.

However, whatever the personal needs / requirement, it is important to differentiate between CONCEAL CARRY and CARRY handguns in our discussions. We often confuse them which starts a discussion that may not have a conclusion. :)

regards

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