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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss 4x4s / Off-roaders / SUVs

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@FK: I think nothing is wrong in 3rd and 4th gear your engine runs on higher rev but as you progress to 5th gear engine rev comes down emitting less smoke. The newer Euro emmision standard engines are being built in such a way that they produce less smoke plus the quality of diesel available in developed countries is far far better but in old 1994 model diesel engine smoke should be expected on high revs.

You may also ask the same question on pakwheels wealth of information is very good over there as well


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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss 4x4s / Off-roaders / SUVs

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thanx bro.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss 4x4s / Off-roaders / SUVs

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Thanks a million ISK for the time and effort taken in replying to my query. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss 4x4s / Off-roaders / SUVs

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@ FK:
What colour is the smoke?? (White or Black)

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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss 4x4s / Off-roaders / SUVs

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Black sir. I think white is the alarming type.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss 4x4s / Off-roaders / SUVs

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And btw it stops when i have just put in oil and new air filter. Air filters i change at abt 1000-1200 kms and oil between 2500-3000 kms. I use delo gold 20-50 in the vehical. I was recommeded this oil by almost every serious offroader i met.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss 4x4s / Off-roaders / SUVs

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First post on this site (and it's funny how I end up talking about off-roaders, here, too).

With regards to regular care and maintenance, the key word here is "regular". Periodic checks of essential oils and fluids (and maintaining their levels) acquires slightly more importance in a vehicle that is meant to take you out into the wilderness on a regular basis. As has been said earlier in the thread, correct viscosity and SAE ratings are all-important. Replacement of filters (oil, air and fuel) as required is also vital.

Your ORV (off road vehicle) will see not only a lot of external wear and tear, it is also going to be subjected to a lot of internal wear and tear, too. This is pretty much inevitable...so the least you can do is minimise it, by keeping protective fluids up to level. 3000-5000 km (depending on the state of the engine, the type of driving it's subjected to, and the terrain and weather it is called upon to tackle) are a ballpark figure. Grease, transmission fluid, brake oil, radiator coolant and the like, are other things to be wary of. A simple guideline: if it has a filler cap / dipstick...it's there to be checked and replaced, periodically.

Happy wheeling.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss 4x4s / Off-roaders / SUVs

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Welcome Fouad
Us gun nuts do have to have something to drive out to do our hunting and fishing.
The ORV is better suited to get us to the GOOD spots, so what better forum to share our knowledge, or ask out questions.
We gont have something for everybody.
But everybody can find something.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss 4x4s / Off-roaders / SUVs

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Interesting tread.

I had been looking for an opportunity to join discussion this sort with close friends here.

Anyhow, I share the same requirements as SA bro and want to add up the Sedan with a robust 4X4 to meet my off-roading requirements for the uphill vacations every year.

Not intending to disturb the rhythm of discussion going on here with respect to the models/options mentioned already, could anyone with experience from respectable members here, kindly help in highlighting the key differences in driving pleasure, comfort, maintenance, etc, between our local Vigo Champ 2012 by Toyota and the Thai imported Vigo of 2009/2010????!!

I know the difference in the Diesel engine is a version 2.5 (Local) vs 3.0 (Thailand), but what does this actually translate to in sheer driving pleasure on the roads/hilly areas? Is one underpowered with a 2.5 local?

The difference in prices is some 5-10 lacs, brand new Vigo Champ local going some 3.2 Mils, I believe. The Thai 2009/2010 operates between 3.8 and 4.5 Mils.

Exteriors of the Thai are very appealing to me, it looks quite gorgeous.

My preferred option was a Toyota Land Cruiser, 98, I simply love this model, but dogs/guards/occasional driver, etc, are forcing me to choose the double cabined option instead, since I wish to maintain my cabin privacy during rides.

Inputs would be highly appreciated.


Regards. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss 4x4s / Off-roaders / SUVs

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A Thai model, is Thai after all (and not Japanese!). How bad their skill level be compared to Toyota Indus? LOL..

That said, it would still retain its resale better, and 3.0 is a definite improvement over the 2.5. Even during urban drives, the power speaks for it self when cruising, and slopes, uphill or downhill, are much better negotiated.

Another very important factor in drive comfort is tyres. They can make a lot of difference to how a vehicle feels and handles.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss 4x4s / Off-roaders / SUVs

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My personal 4x4 of choice is the old Hilux and the BJ70/74. I do not like the newer Vigo type pickups and just broke a lot of the plastic off of one over the last three days doing about 300km off road in Chagai. I have done the same with the Cygnus and the new Land Cruisers. If you're serious about off roading then stick with the older stuff and have it put right. The newer models tend to be much more of a compromise. If you can find one, a BJ70/74 with locking diffs and a 1PZ engine is my preference.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss 4x4s / Off-roaders / SUVs

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Saif wrote:
A Thai model, is Thai after all (and not Japanese!). How bad their skill level be compared to Toyota Indus? LOL..

That said, it would still retain its resale better, and 3.0 is a definite improvement over the 2.5. Even during urban drives, the power speaks for it self when cruising, and slopes, uphill or downhill, are much better negotiated.

Another very important factor in drive comfort is tyres. They can make a lot of difference to how a vehicle feels and handles.


Lol!

No, the comparison was actually not meant between Thai and Indus, lol!

The comparison was actually: Brand new local vs 2-4 years old imported, when the Thai model second hand is operating some 5-10 lacs above the 2012 local.

Hence, old vs new. And the significance of the 500cc displacement added to the 2.5.

I must say, even the interior of the local one does not appeal much to me vs the Thai.

@Batholith.................Thanks bro. BJ40/74 may no doubts be an ideal thing, but since my intended purpose may be off-roading as well as regular use with requirements of comfort during longer rides and few if any visits to the mechanics, I'm thinking more towards the newer ones. 90 late would be the max I'd prefer to go down the timeline.

Sadly, I'm the stubborn type who prefer to sell off, rather than to have repaired. I can't stand mechanics and sweating affairs at their workshops, finally leaving off from them with still no confidence, whether if the damn thing was repaired right or not, lolz!


Regards. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss 4x4s / Off-roaders / SUVs

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AK47 wrote:
Sadly, I'm the stubborn type who prefer to sell off, rather than to have repaired. I can't stand mechanics and sweating affairs at their workshops, finally leaving off from them with still no confidence, whether if the damn thing was repaired right or not, lolz!

A new local VIGO, in that case!

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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss 4x4s / Off-roaders / SUVs

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Ak47, i guess you would have to find out the hps of both the vehicals. The other i read somewhere that a toyota tundra has a 4.4ltr engine compared to a gmc that had a 5.0 or smething like that. But both had almost negligible difference in hps, which i guess is bigger factor of determining a cars power.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss 4x4s / Off-roaders / SUVs

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With regards to the Vigo Champ Vs. Vigo Thai debate, the engine alone makes for a huge amount of difference.

When we talk engines, two catchphrases often come up: horsepower and torque. The difference between these two is often easily explained with an analogy "horsepower is how fast you hit a wall. Torque is how far you drag the wall with you". In real (but very basic) off-roading terms, torque more than sheer horsepower will dictate the ability of an engine to drag and pull the vehicle through the challenges that terrain will impose upon it.

The 2.5L engine on the Vigo Champ is a 2KD-FTV engine which puts out a maximum of 101 brake horsepower (bhp) at 3400 rpm. Its peak torque is 192 lb-ft at 1600-3600 rpm.

The 3.0L engine of the Thai is the 1KD-FTV engine which churns out 170 bhp at 3400 rpm, and has peak torque of 260 lb-ft at 1800-3400 rpm.

These are considerable differences, as not only will the latter accelerate better, negotiate slopes and side-slopes better, but - because the power band in the 3.0L is at lower revs - will also sound and feel less "strained" whilst doing so. In "highway and driveway warfare" this is a moot point, at best. But when you get into difficult terrain and weather, and the assorted challenges they pose, the 2.5L engine is significantly ill-equipped in comparison to its bigger brother. A word of caution, though...the 1KD-FTV engine (on the Thai) has a history of injector failure, because of its susceptibility to non Low Sulphur Diesel.

Finally, in answer to what one of our friends wrote up here, about preferring new rides to repaired rides: GOOD off-roaders can be BOUGHT...but GREAT off-roaders are always BUILT.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss 4x4s / Off-roaders / SUVs

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The senior SUV owner, would youshare what kimd of bulids ups you guys have done to your SUVs.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss 4x4s / Off-roaders / SUVs

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They say a picture is worth a thousand words, so I'll try to add some photos to a short write up about some of the Off Roaders I've "built". These vehicles have invariably served a purpose; as a hunting rig, or an out-and-out hardcore ORV, or a family carrier...so each one has taken a specific course of action.

1952 Willys (2.0L I4, 5 forward gears, 4wd)
Image
This vehicle was heavily modified and restored. Along with the original engine being restored, it was fitted with a modern-robust-reliable diesel engine and gearbox, as well. The original seats (uncomfortable to say the least) were restored, and new bucket seats were fitted, too. Over 300 (small and large) pieces were chrome plated. The Willys is a tough little machine, and the '52 pictured here was certainly no exception to the rule. It drove from Pindi to Siachen and back!

1999 Range Rover HSE (4.6L V8, 4 speed auto transmission, 4wd)
Image
This was my late father's car, which had started to suffer from some neglect after his death. Other than restore it to pristine condition, there were no modifications that were carried out, or even contemplated on this vehicle. Primarily, a family vehicle; this RR is a supremely capable off road rig nevertheless. But somehow, I'll never really "push" it that way...for obvious sentimental reasons.

2003 Toyota FZJ79 Pickup (4.5L I6, 5 forward gears, 4wd)
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This is an obvious hunting rig. Most of the modifications with this vehicle pertain to body work. The winch, the fender flares, the roll cage, the rear bench seats, the foglights, and the GoLight (mounted on the roof) are all a means to the end of "the hunt". This is very much an all-terrain vehicle, which is equally at home in mud, sand, gravel, or rock. With front and rear differential locks, this ride may look like a mere "loader", but is actually a very capable off road rig.

1984 FJ40 (4.2L I6, 5 forward gears, 4wd)
Image
An ongoing project. This has been very heavily modified. Stretched, lifted, widened...it's been turned into a four door. It rides atop 42 inch wheels. Has a pickup tub. This is considered an "expedition rig"...something that is comfortable on the road and off it...and can be trusted to go further off-road than its peers (hopefully!).

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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss 4x4s / Off-roaders / SUVs

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Wow.... very impressive Fouad sahib. We sure will learn a lot from you :text-bravo:

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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss 4x4s / Off-roaders / SUVs

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Wow. Very impressive Fouad s . The last beauty infact resembles a hummer sut. Great work.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss 4x4s / Off-roaders / SUVs

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Fouad sb, could you elaborate the process of lifting, widening and streching a little bit. A general idea I have is if you lift a car more than the acutal height, that would shift the center of gravity thus making it harder to control the car on steep slopes or sider slopes. So a lilttle education on that would be useful.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss 4x4s / Off-roaders / SUVs

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Boss, you're absolutely right about lifting vis a vis shifting the centre of gravity.

The process which you see in the black FJ40 pictured above is called "Spring Over Axle" or SOA. In this, you shift the leaf spring stack and its "perches" to a point above the axle (rather than the stock position below the axle). To compensate for the huge lift in the vehicle that you see (almost 15 inches), the stance of the vehicle has been widened (about 24 inches) by adding wider axles, wheel spacers, offset wheels, and fatter tyres. In most vehicles, though you can conveniently cater for 2-4 inches suspension lift, without significantly shifting the centre of gravity of the vehicle. In fact, a lot of off road enthusiasts do so, just for the purpose of increasing their vehicle's ride height, and enabling them to tackle harsher terrain thereby...even if they do not use oversized wheels and tyres.

Stretching the vehicle involves adding to the chassis (at the ends and/or between the wheelbase). This assists in providing lateral stability and cabin space (it's always easier to roll over a short vehicle than it is a longer one), but has a disadvantage of being prone to getting "bellied" on steep inclines. So this has to be carefully judged to ensure it's practical as well as aesthetically pleasing.

In the absence of sophisticated CAD/CAM techniques with our fabricators, the simple way to test the results of such a project are to drive it and make adjustments en route to completion. Of course, things like steering geometry, brake linkages, fuel lines, exhaust flows and the like would also require a lot of supervision, scrutiny, and thought.

I hope this answer provides some clarity. If not, it'd be my pleasure to answer any specifics which you might have.

Cheers.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss 4x4s / Off-roaders / SUVs

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Fouad Hafeez sb, thank you for taking out time to answer my question, the only thing is i am a newbie as far as 4x4s are concerned. So everyday I have a new question popping into my mind. But i guess thats how one learns. and thanx to seniors like you and ISK who actually make an effort to impart knowledge, no matter how basic or lame a question is. Thank you once again.
Sir the last jeep in the write up, the toyota, on the left i notice a snorkel and in the rear a huge exhaust. Is that really an exhaust or just put there for cosmetic reason? That is one big exhaust.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss 4x4s / Off-roaders / SUVs

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and I know this is off the topic, but the car next to the toyota, what is that car. It certainly has been restored, and resembles either a cadilac or a buick. someday i have to come visit you to see your collection. Mouth watering.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss 4x4s / Off-roaders / SUVs

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My pleasure, Sir.

That is indeed an exhaust that you see. Whilst deciding the underbelly "ergonomics" of the Toyota, a normal "below the waist" silencer would have reduced it's clearance/ride height, with the result that we opted for an upright "chimney" exhaust instead. In tandem with the snorkel, this sort of a setup allows greater water fording ability. Plus, it looks nice with the overall "flavour" of the vehicle.

To answer the second query, the car parked next to the Toyota is a restored/modified 1965 Chevy Impala. And it would certainly be my pleasure to have you visit me sometime, so we can talk guns and cars and hunting/fishing. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Let's discuss 4x4s / Off-roaders / SUVs

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Thanx alot sir. But again, is installing a snorkel, beneficial in the overall performance of the car, other than providing safety against water?

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