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 Post subject: OH - RANGE VISITS

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The above two targets were shot with 15 Meter, NP -34 Pistol On December 22, 2013, without any guidance and understanding of what is going wrong.

Below 3 Targets are shoot with Glock 19 Gen-4 distance 15 meter under the Guidance of SA in which he emphasis on four basic things i.e Breathing, Trigger Control, Sight Focus and Grip.

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After Shooting above three targets SA Plays a trick :roll: with me and carry flinch test which is positive :angry-banghead:
Below two targets are more focus on basics and fighting with the anticipated bang.

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Last two targets are from SA's Sp-01 Distance 25 Meter.
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Gentlemen :text-feedback:

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Last edited by Owais Hasan on Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OH - RANGE VISITS

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Owais,
Thank you for sharing and the post could have been better if had some details like the way members are posting.

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 Post subject: Re: OH - RANGE VISITS

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Owais Hassan,
Not bad at all, haven't seen you dry firing before the real action. Dry fire helps a lot and you can practice it at home as well, one good suggestion is given by SR to do dry fire with a coin

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we've all heard, the key to good shooting is squeezing and not pulling the trigger...

Coin exercise will certainly be a help in improving trigger squeeze.

I am also under guidance by SA and was really pissed off with my flinch, I was about to give up shooting but he keep on insisting to carry on my practice and flinch will go away one day automatically. On my last visit i.e. April 20, 2014 I was able to control my flinch.

Have strong believe in you and keep practicing hard......just keep shooting regularly and you will see your results improving.

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 Post subject: Re: OH - RANGE VISITS

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OH,

Bro, you need to shift from G19 to CZ75 for range shooting for the next couple of months to iron out your basic fundamentals. Once, you're through with that, you'll find yourself shooting good groups with most of your handguns.

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 Post subject: Re: OH - RANGE VISITS

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SA Bro as per your advice I already start dry practicing with CZ75.

NR Bro can you elaborate more what is coin exercise

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 Post subject: Re: OH - RANGE VISITS

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Owais- This exercise is for dry firing practice. Load snap cap in the chamber, hold your gun straight, place the coin as shown in picture and pull the trigger without letting coin fall.

This is what I've learnt from SR and little research from internet. Please do share outcome once you do it.

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 Post subject: Re: OH - RANGE VISITS

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OH - dry firing will surely help your case. From your results and from observing you firing at the range, as NR pointed out practice dry firing. Breathing and dry firing is something you can do at your ease at home, and both are basic essentials for getting better results...

Cheers...

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 Post subject: Re: OH - RANGE VISITS

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OH, good to see your targets brother. I would suggest few things.

:arrow: Please practice from 15 m for a while.
:arrow: Use only one gun, whichever that might be. Shooting with different guns does create problems in the beginning as each gun might have different hold, trigger pull and sight picture.
:arrow: Please concentrate on basics and the target should be achieving smaller groups. Pleas forget about the scores for a while. If a shooter can shoot small groups, good scores will automatically follow.
:arrow: Please go through NG's shooting thread in detail and whenever possible at the range, discuss things with him that how he faced a particular problem and worked towards improvement / eradication.

All the best. :)

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 Post subject: Re: OH - RANGE VISITS

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OH, I see!

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 Post subject: Re: OH - RANGE VISITS

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Comprehensive advice by Sir KBW. Follow it to the letter.

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 Post subject: Re: OH - RANGE VISITS

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@ KBW Sir,

Thank you for the guidance I will more focus next time Inshallah below are the todays targets from 15 meter CZ75 B.

@ MIAN JEE, Great Humor Bro.

@ SA, As now my targets are not very good but now I am able to understand my flaws

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Warm Regards

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 Post subject: Re: OH - RANGE VISITS

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OH
This is some nice shooting. By looking at ur targets You have controlled ur flinch very well. Keep on going. Regular practice will yield better results.

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 Post subject: Re: OH - RANGE VISITS

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OH, It takes years for sportsmen to reach excellence. Most of us have started shooting in 2014 and we must be thankful to our seniors who helped us climbing fast. We should now practice with dedication and prove our efforts on the paper.

Your are climbing fast and will soon be having desired results.

Good Luck!

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 Post subject: Re: OH - RANGE VISITS

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OH
Better shooting brother. Please do mention the gun and the distance on the chart. I would also recommend recording of group size of each string fired. That way, you will have a standard to gauge your performance / improvement. Please keep a record of all your practices so that you are able to monitor improvement.

@All
I don't see OH flinching profusely. I see that "flinching" is very popular amongst the TGF shooter (or should I say mentioning of flinching as a reason for bad shooting, so to say). I see it being mentioned in so many threads frequently by so many shooters. Does TGF shooters have some emotional attachment with flinching? :D Please be advised that flinching is just one of the many errors that a shooter commits. So many shooters who don't flinch still can't shoot small groups due to errors other than flinching. Laying extra emphasis on one problem at times results in loss of focus from actual error. So much for flinching.

regards

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 Post subject: Re: OH - RANGE VISITS

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KBW wrote:
OH
Better shooting brother. Please do mention the gun and the distance on the chart. I would also recommend recording of group size of each string fired. That way, you will have a standard to gauge your performance / improvement. Please keep a record of all your practices so that you are able to monitor improvement.

@All
I don't see OH flinching profusely. I see that "flinching" is very popular amongst the TGF shooter (or should I say mentioning of flinching as a reason for bad shooting, so to say). I see it being mentioned in so many threads frequently by so many shooters. Does TGF shooters have some emotional attachment with flinching? :D Please be advised that flinching is just one of the many errors that a shooter commits. So many shooters who don't flinch still can't shoot small groups due to errors other than flinching. Laying extra emphasis on one problem at times results in loss of focus from actual error. So much for flinching.

regards



KBW wrote:
:arrow: Please go through NG's shooting thread in detail and whenever possible at the range, discuss things with him that how he faced a particular problem and worked towards improvement / eradication.


OH Brother, you already have a mentor who is far more senior and experienced than I am and has walked you through things with a lot of dedication as I have witness myself...However, if there's anything I can help you with please do let me know and I'll accompany you next time when you go to the range, possibly Karsaz for a couple of hours sometime Wednesday?

For past 1 full month, I have shot on a plain white paper. Let me tell you, as I went through the exercise I did not only learn the basics but also to be patient enough to put bullets on a piece of paper without a point of aim and still manage to make groups. It sounds more crazy in the beginning (and honestly speaking I did tell myself a few times I'm wasting time and money shooting at a blank paper) but within a couple of visits I started identifying the errors just by recalling the session while I read my thread from start after every visit. Very soon, after every single shot I was able to analyze the shot, how I fired and its result, followed by the corrections I had to make. It's just a process of putting yourself into that natural routine of identifying the errors yourself - this is what shooting a blank paper was about for me. Learning the basics sounds easier on a targeted paper as compared to a white sheet, but when you have to identify errors a white sheet is far better because the one who has asked you to shoot at the white sheet knows what to expect and what to advise.

For me, it worked a miracle and I'm surprised how easily I'm able to score well now. It was because the group size got shrunk to the extent that every round can be squeezed in the black zone. I am not suggesting you to start shooting at a blank sheet, above is just my experience through the woods without directions.


I would however, like to suggest a few things. Brother Hamza pointed out natural POA for the first time to me and I felt it has a major role in getting good results. The next time come to the range, only bring a single weapon which you are most comfortable with (not the one you have shot with the most) along with only 25 rounds. This is what helped me make every round count, and not have slightest hit of the mentality that I have enough rounds to go for a fresh target and try my luck for a better outcome. Knowing that you only have 25 rounds, 5 as sighters and rest 20 for the actual day's practice, you will make sure that you give 100% concentration to each round. You will have 1 full hour to put 20 rounds down range, and I suggest you actually make it a point that you take a full hour before you fire your last round. What you can do in between (which I have been doing since my second range visit) is dry firing, take a seat and focus on your target, take a walk around the range and do deep breathing, try to make rhythm out of random shots fired by other members so that it does not disturb you when you are live with ammo, do not put time in talking to others rather put this time into telling yourself the basics reciting them in your mind over and over again so that when you pick up the weapon for dry/live firing you have them running in your mind...

Basically, everything I have mentioned above is to do with the mindset. The harshest of drilling that I had received since I joined TGF was on the mindset. In fact, if you go through the more senior member shooting threads, you will see evidence that when they are not in the proper mindset, even the most senior shooters go all the way down to 140 score. I completely understand that when things are not going as one desires, frustration level builds up and will put you off for the day, but right mindset is the first thing that should be taken care of even before the very basic shooting skills come into play.

I have a very limited shooting experience, but I do have a vast knowledge base of seniors here on TGF. So do read around with seriousness and it will answer a lot of your questions even before you ask them. You have SA on your back and I'm confident that he will not let go of you till you have the basics in your instincts which you follow on every single round. However, I feel honored with Sir KBW's comments above, and by all means if there's anything I can do to contribute to TGF and its members I will be a pleasure.

Good luck with your shooting OH. Remember always, you are the only one who can demotivate AND/OR motivate yourself. Keep the right mindset and you'll be just fine.

Cheers...

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 Post subject: Re: OH - RANGE VISITS

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@ KBW Sir, thanks once again for your valuable comments.

@ NG, I love to go with you on Wednesday it is very generous offer please convey your suitable time I will pick you. And can you please further elaborate what exactly meaning of measuring the Group size which is refereed above by KBW Sir. And how I can distinguish it is my Natural Point of Aim or I am dragging my self to making it my natural Point of Aim.

Warm Regards.
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 Post subject: Re: OH - RANGE VISITS

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OH
Group size can be measured with following methods. Example give below is for 9mm or .357 mag groups. Please take along a scale with you and keep it in your shooting kit...
:arrow: Distance from the center of the hole of two farthest bullets. eg, 5"
:arrow: Distance from the inner edges of two farthest bullet holes + caliber (.35 inch), eg, 4.65" + 0.35" = 5"
:arrow: Distance from the outer edges of two farthest bullet holes - caliber (.35 inch), eg, 5.35" - 0,35" = 5"

For natural point of aim, please see Haider's post in NG's thread
http://thegunforum.net/viewtopic.php?p=77603#p77603

best regards

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 Post subject: Re: OH - RANGE VISITS

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KBW Sb,

Tahnx for the clarification about sizing of groups. I already start reading NG's shooting thread as per your advise I really thankful to NG also who asked questions with such a dedication which helps me to rectify the basic flaws.

Warm Regards

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 Post subject: Re: OH - RANGE VISITS

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Thank you Sir, for clearing OH on measuring the groups.

OH - We can go to Karsaz anytime after 4pm. Let me know when its feasible for you.

Cheers...

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 Post subject: Re: OH - RANGE VISITS

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NG I will call you tomorrow at 4 and we will coordinate the details with each other

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 Post subject: Re: OH - RANGE VISITS

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Sure OH. I will most probably be in the market tomorrow. I'll try to ring you up earlier, and if not then please by all means do coordinate with me at your proposed time. I have kept a scale for you too, so you need not worry about it :)

Cheers mate...

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 Post subject: Re: OH - RANGE VISITS

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I and OM Khan reached at Range around 8:30 AM. Weather was pleasant and calm (for me it was Bad Day for shooting as the results are not good) although I did 1/2 hour dry practice at range.
Image

Conclusion: PRACTICE, PRACTICE AND MORE PRACTICE of BASICS :angry-banghead:

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 Post subject: Re: OH - RANGE VISITS

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OH - just a thought, have you considered shooting at a blank white sheet?
This exercise will help you realize what exactly is going on with each round. Although, it might not be something you want to do close to the competition date.

My 02.
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 Post subject: Re: OH - RANGE VISITS

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NG BRO,

Yes why not, Competion is not priority for me. Right now I am trying to get develop my basic skills on next range visit I will definitely try on blank paper sheet.

Regards.

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 Post subject: Re: OH - RANGE VISITS

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Would like SA's input here too, as he's the one assessing you.

SA - brother?

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