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 Post subject: Re: NG - Range Practice Sessions | Results

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Excellent progress and :handgestures-salute: to your dedication.

If i ever retained NP42 it will purely be based on your experience. CF is really doing wonders in your hands.

Very good Luck for the competition.

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 Post subject: Re: NG - Range Practice Sessions | Results

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NG - Is the comptt 20th or 25th of May?


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 Post subject: Re: NG - Range Practice Sessions | Results

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excellent shooting NG.


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 Post subject: Re: NG - Range Practice Sessions | Results

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Outstanding. I am so happy for you NG :text-bravo:

What exactly was the POA. Did you change your POA, even slightly, during the shoot?

regards

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 Post subject: Re: NG - Range Practice Sessions | Results

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Excellent shooting. :violence-pistoldouble:

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 Post subject: Re: NG - Range Practice Sessions | Results

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Excellent MashaAllah.


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 Post subject: Re: NG - Range Practice Sessions | Results

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Wajeeh Hasan wrote:
NG - Is the comptt 20th or 25th of May?


The competition is on Sunday the 25th of May. Correction made in the initial post.
Thanks WH.
Cheers...

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 Post subject: Re: NG - Range Practice Sessions | Results

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NR wrote:
Excellent progress and :handgestures-salute: to your dedication.

If i ever retained NP42 it will purely be based on your experience. CF is really doing wonders in your hands.

Very good Luck for the competition.


Cheers NR. Appreciate it...

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 Post subject: Re: NG - Range Practice Sessions | Results

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KBW wrote:
Outstanding. I am so happy for you NG :text-bravo:

What exactly was the POA. Did you change your POA, even slightly, during the shoot?

regards


Thank you KBW, Sir. Couldn't have done it without your endless support. :handgestures-salute:

Sir, I had asked you earlier regarding the POA. I was a little confused as to what to do here because the gun is fixed sighted, it has a non-adjustable POA. I experimented today to pin point the zero point of the gun which turned out to be 7/8 junction, and with this POA I am able to hit inside the 10 circle. Therefore, while aiming down at the 6/7 junction, I let the front sight move upwards just enough so I can see the slide between the front and the rear sight. In measurement, its hardly a mm that the front sight rises from the rear sight but it seems to have done the trick. From your post earlier, I reckoned that 6/7 junction is the best bet of having a consistent POA, hence I tried this experiment today. I think now its just a matter of getting the sight picture absolutely concrete and be able to acquire the aim consistently.

Please make corrections as needed, as I may be doing something I shouldn't be. Or, there might be a better way of going about it.

Thank you.
Cheers...

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 Post subject: Re: NG - Range Practice Sessions | Results

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Haider, HMR - thank you :)

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 Post subject: Re: NG - Range Practice Sessions | Results

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Ok NG. Trying to find some time for practice at the range so was worried about the date.


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 Post subject: Re: NG - Range Practice Sessions | Results

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@ NG,

Simply Brilliant !

With Saif, you, WH, HMR and yours truly and a bit more serious/focused practice in between, we just might be able to give them a run for their money on the competition day, in the team event :D

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 Post subject: Re: NG - Range Practice Sessions | Results

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SA competition will be single or double hold?


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 Post subject: Re: NG - Range Practice Sessions | Results

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If i remember correctly first time it would be a two hand competition.

NG great shooting. Excellent progress.

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 Post subject: Re: NG - Range Practice Sessions | Results

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HMR - the competition is a monthly event, and is scheduled for the last Sunday of each month. To start off, it will be two hands but later will revert to single hand only. Please do let us know when you go for practice shooting, will try to accompany you.

Thank you FK.

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 Post subject: Re: NG - Range Practice Sessions | Results

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NaveedGhani wrote:
KBW wrote:
Outstanding. I am so happy for you NG :text-bravo:

What exactly was the POA. Did you change your POA, even slightly, during the shoot?

regards


Thank you KBW, Sir. Couldn't have done it without your endless support. :handgestures-salute:

Sir, I had asked you earlier regarding the POA. I was a little confused as to what to do here because the gun is fixed sighted, it has a non-adjustable POA. I experimented today to pin point the zero point of the gun which turned out to be 7/8 junction, and with this POA I am able to hit inside the 10 circle. Therefore, while aiming down at the 6/7 junction, I let the front sight move upwards just enough so I can see the slide between the front and the rear sight. In measurement, its hardly a mm that the front sight rises from the rear sight but it seems to have done the trick. From your post earlier, I reckoned that 6/7 junction is the best bet of having a consistent POA, hence I tried this experiment today. I think now its just a matter of getting the sight picture absolutely concrete and be able to acquire the aim consistently.

Please make corrections as needed, as I may be doing something I shouldn't be. Or, there might be a better way of going about it.

Thank you.
Cheers...


KBW, Sir?

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 Post subject: Re: NG - Range Practice Sessions | Results

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SA wrote:
With Saif, you, WH, HMR and yours truly and a bit more serious/focused practice in between, we just might be able to give them a run for their money on the competition day, in the team event :D
Exactly. Actually, if you guys stay mentally strong, with the present skill level I am expecting a very strong competition and anything can happen. But maintaining a correct mindset on the day of competition is the key. :)

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 Post subject: Re: NG - Range Practice Sessions | Results

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GOOD GOING NAVEED BHAI


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 Post subject: Re: NG - Range Practice Sessions | Results

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Outstanding NG Bro.


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 Post subject: Re: NG - Range Practice Sessions | Results

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KBW wrote:
SA wrote:
With Saif, you, WH, HMR and yours truly and a bit more serious/focused practice in between, we just might be able to give them a run for their money on the competition day, in the team event :D
Exactly. Actually, if you guys stay mentally strong, with the present skill level I am expecting a very strong competition and anything can happen. But maintaining a correct mindset on the day of competition is the key. :)


KBW, Sir can you please elaborate on the correct mindset? We have been on the range enough times to understand the mindset of shooting, but when it comes down to a competition, what or how would you describe the correct mindset? I believe it is important that all participants are on the same page with this so we can act as a team. Others who have been in such competitions, please provide your feedback too.

Thank you
Cheers...

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 Post subject: Re: NG - Range Practice Sessions | Results

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NaveedGhani wrote:
I had asked you earlier regarding the POA. I was a little confused as to what to do here because the gun is fixed sighted, it has a non-adjustable POA. I experimented today to pin point the zero point of the gun which turned out to be 7/8 junction, and with this POA I am able to hit inside the 10 circle. Therefore, while aiming down at the 6/7 junction, I let the front sight move upwards just enough so I can see the slide between the front and the rear sight. In measurement, its hardly a mm that the front sight rises from the rear sight but it seems to have done the trick. From your post earlier, I reckoned that 6/7 junction is the best bet of having a consistent POA, hence I tried this experiment today. I think now its just a matter of getting the sight picture absolutely concrete and be able to acquire the aim consistently.

Please make corrections as needed, as I may be doing something I shouldn't be. Or, there might be a better way of going about it.
The method that you are using is against the teachings. Correct sight picture means that the front sight tip is being seen in the rear sight slot in a manner that front sight tip is equidistant from both the sides (left and right of the rear sight slot) and the top of front sight tip is exactly leveled with the right and left top edges of the rear side slot. If the top of the front sight tip is over the imaginary line formed by the top left and right edges of the rear sight slot than aiming is incorrect and so is the sight picture. If it is below that line, it is again incorrect. It has to be exactly at the same level. This is an important aspect and must always be practiced.

If you are aiming at 6/7 line junction and keeping the front sight tip above the rear sight slot so as to bring it to 7/8 line, it can never help you in acquiring a correct sight picture consistently though you might be able to do it a few odd times. This method is incorrect.

BTW, in your target of 179 (which might have gone down to 175 if you were using a proper target), 10 shots are above the bull, 8 shots are in the line of bull and only two shots are below the bull. That means the MPI of 20 rounds is somewhere at the top edge of the bull or a little higher. I wonder how you have determined that your gun shoots accurately when you aim at 7/8 line? You are clearly shooting higher. If the MPI had been 1 inch lower, 6 shots above the bull in 8 ring would have been in 9 ring whereas two shots below the bull in 9 and 8 ring would have gone down to 8 and 7 rings respectively and you might have ended up with 3-4 extra points.

It looks to me that your gun will shoot more bulls if you aim at 6/7 junction. And if you are still convinced that 7/8 junction is a better POA, than keep the sights aligned and aim a little higher than 6/7 junction. Practice it that way. Raising or lowering the front sight tip is incorrect and I will never recommend such a method.




NaveedGhani wrote:

.....can you please elaborate on the correct mindset? We have been on the range enough times to understand the mindset of shooting, but when it comes down to a competition, what or how would you describe the correct mindset? I believe it is important that all participants are on the same page with this so we can act as a team. Others who have been in such competitions, please provide your feedback too.
It means that the shooter disengages himself from the surrounding, keeps his cool, does not get excited and even during the most trying moments of the match when the chips are down, he behaves normal as if he was practicing alone in a range session. This is not an easy state to achieve and this is the very aspect which differentiates good shooters from champions.

regards

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 Post subject: Re: NG - Range Practice Sessions | Results

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Dear KBW Sir, thank you for clarification. I will keep the sights as you mentioned, was really getting worried as this is one of the things I myself was unsure of.

Moving forwards, I will slightly overlap the 6/7 junction with the front sight, and keep the alignment of the front and rear sight as you have suggested.

Aim for the next range session:
:arrow: Get the sights locked for life
:arrow: Get the POA for CF-98 around 6/7 junction
:arrow: Continue to scrutinize the basics
:arrow: Touch a score of 185 @ 25M

SA - is it possible that we can leave a few ISSF targets at ASCCL for any team member who wishes to practice during weekdays at ASCCL? The RM can be instructed to only give them to authorized members.

Cheers...

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 Post subject: Re: NG - Range Practice Sessions | Results

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NaveedGhani wrote:
Aim for the next range session:
:arrow: Get the sights locked for life
:arrow: Get the POA for CF-98 around 6/7 junction
I am not sure that I understand what you mean :confusion-questionmarks:

I have no idea what is locking of sights!! And secondly, how will you bring POA to 6/7 ring when you don't have adjustable sights on your gun? You can only select a point of aim (imaginary) which makes you shoot at the bull. Do you have something else in mind?

regards

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 Post subject: Re: NG - Range Practice Sessions | Results

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KBW wrote:
NaveedGhani wrote:
Aim for the next range session:
:arrow: Get the sights locked for life
:arrow: Get the POA for CF-98 around 6/7 junction
I am not sure that I understand what you mean :confusion-questionmarks:

I have no idea what is locking of sights!! And secondly, how will you bring POA to 6/7 ring when you don't have adjustable sights on your gun? You can only select a point of aim (imaginary) which makes you shoot at the bull. Do you have something else in mind?

regards


:arrow: Sights locked for life - I meant to say that I will not change the sight picture moving forwards. I was experimenting with raising the front sight between the rear sight, but that is not a sound practice as you pointed out, hence will only focus on the correct alignment now. Also, in raising the front sight, I have noticed that its very difficult to get the same sight picture on every shot.

:arrow: Get POA for CF-98 around 6/7 junction - What I actually mean is, to ensure that I consistently aim at a single POA instead of going from one POA to the other in pursuit of hitting the bull. Previously, I was aiming at the 7/8 junction and the approach was to get this junction to sit on the front sight. Now, I will change the approach but the result might still be the same. I will take the aim as you mentioned at 6/7 junction so that the ring sits on the front sight, and then will raise the POA from here to overlap this junction with the front sight. As in, the focus will not be the 7/8 junction, it will still be 6/7 junction just the sight picture alignment with this junction will change slightly.

One thing that I have been thinking for a while now. For the upcoming competition, I will go with what I have at hand, but right after the competition, I will need further advise on zeroing the gun at the bull, which might mean hammering the sights slightly so that when both sights are aligned, I can just directly take aim of the bull and hit it.

Cheers...

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 Post subject: Re: NG - Range Practice Sessions | Results

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NaveedGhani wrote:
:arrow: Get POA for CF-98 around 6/7 junction - What I actually mean is, to ensure that I consistently aim at a single POA instead of going from one POA to the other in pursuit of hitting the bull. Previously, I was aiming at the 7/8 junction and the approach was to get this junction to sit on the front sight. Now, I will change the approach but the result might still be the same. I will take the aim as you mentioned at 6/7 junction so that the ring sits on the front sight, and then will raise the POA from here to overlap this junction with the front sight. As in, the focus will not be the 7/8 junction, it will still be 6/7 junction just the sight picture alignment with this junction will change slightly.
Please read the comments already posted....
KBW wrote:
BTW, in your target of 179 (which might have gone down to 175 if you were using a proper target), 10 shots are above the bull, 8 shots are in the line of bull and only two shots are below the bull. That means the MPI of 20 rounds is somewhere at the top edge of the bull or a little higher. I wonder how you have determined that your gun shoots accurately when you aim at 7/8 line? You are clearly shooting higher. If the MPI had been 1 inch lower, 6 shots above the bull in 8 ring would have been in 9 ring whereas two shots below the bull in 9 and 8 ring would have gone down to 8 and 7 rings respectively and you might have ended up with 3-4 extra points.
This simply means that you need to try at 6/7 junction first. You are shooting high with your POA at imaginary 7/8 ring. I say imaginary because you can't see it from 25 m, you can just estimate that this might be the place where as in case of 6/7 ring, you are dead sure because that is where black portion ends and white portion starts. Give a try at 6/7 ring.

Secondly, you must not change the POA after every shot in pursuit of hitting the bull. Few very experienced shooter who have shot thousands of rounds with their gun might attempt that however I will not advise that. The reason is that if a shot is on the left and up, it could be due to numerous reasons and not just due to incorrect zeroing or an incorrect POA. Logically, if a shot is left and up, you should change your POA right and down with the same margin. But that might not solve your problem and you may go too much right and down or anywhere else, depending on the mistake if you committed one during that particular shot. So select a POA during practice and check / confirm it when you are shooting sighting shots before the start of competition. If there is a change needed, do that at that time. But there is no point in changing the POA after every two shots. With this, you will land up no where.

NaveedGhani wrote:
One thing that I have been thinking for a while now. For the upcoming competition, I will go with what I have at hand, but right after the competition, I will need further advise on zeroing the gun at the bull, which might mean hammering the sights slightly so that when both sights are aligned, I can just directly take aim of the bull and hit it.
In my view, your gun doesn't need any further zeroing and you can't do anything more with it. The rear sights are drift adjustable and your gun is well zeroed for line (right and left). It is not zeroed for range (up and down) and you can't do anything about it, except tempering with the front sight which is not advisable. Your gun is well zeroed keeping in mind its sights. Try to adjust with it by selecting and practicing the correct POA.

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