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 Post subject: Re: reprobate's learning curve

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reprobate wrote:
cant seem to get decent groupings though, i am in the black but all over

Which is why you now need specific guidance. Try getting SufiJee alias HolyGunsmith alias Saif to help you out at Karsaz.

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Bolt actions speak louder than words

Sometimes adding 175 grains of boat-tailed diplomacy speeds up Peace Talks


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 Post subject: Re: reprobate's learning curve

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ok, thanks. i have been bugging saif sahib for gunsmithing advice as well, shall add to his burdens :)

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 Post subject: Re: reprobate's learning curve

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reprobate wrote:
ok, thanks. i have been bugging saif sahib for gunsmithing advice as well, shall add to his burdens


Your shooting is better than what we generally get to see at the range, and apparently there is plenty of room for improvement. I am only a shooter who scores well sometimes. I do not consider myself a very good or correct shooter so as to speak. The reason being the many flaws I have in my basic technique, which I have realized over time, specially last few months when I have gone through a 'look back-reflect' period. My grip, trigger squeeze, and follow through, all need major improvements.

1. Grip: pressure points must be consistent, with front and back pressure application only. no sideways pressure.
2. Breathing: break the shot within 6-7 seconds of holding breath (inhale generously, then exhale about 70-80%, hold 20-30% air in your lungs, break shot within 6-7 seconds)
3. Sight picture: sights must be properly aligned, left right gap, top of all sights at same level, and target must be acquired similarly in all shots
4. Focus on front sight: let the rear sights and the target blur out a bit. Call your shots i.e you must know where the sights were when the shot broke, which should indicate where the bullet has impacted, instead of looking through the scope!
5. Trigger squeeze: remember, squeeze, not pull. use the same position of finger on the same position of trigger. squeeze like you would squeeze a lemon
6. Follow through: google it up!

Being consistent is very important in above. Repeatability of basics, in the same manner, over and over again, will ensure better groups.

Study the shooters wheel of misfortune. Compare it with your target. Grip errors, anticipation, flinch, jerking trigger, all will be very clear. I would advise to shoot with the Kadet single hand for few weeks, and the CZ only strong hand.
We can discuss all this better at the range if you have studied, observed/gone through this a few times.

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A punch is necessary.

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 Post subject: Re: reprobate's learning curve

Marksman

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thank you saif sahib,
you have given me a project to work on.
shall update progress (hopefully)

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CZ 75 Compact Shadow Line
CZ 75 B SS
CZ 75 Kadet 2
Dan Wesson VBOB
Sig Sauer X5 Black and White
Sig Sauer X Short Riviera
Walther LP400
Anschutz 1416
Maroochi Zero3
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 Post subject: Re: reprobate's learning curve

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Saif wrote:
Your shooting is better than what we generally get to see at the range, and apparently there is plenty of room for improvement. I am only a shooter who scores well sometimes. I do not consider myself a very good or correct shooter so as to speak. The reason being the many flaws I have in my basic technique, which I have realized over time, specially last few months when I have gone through a 'look back-reflect' period. My grip, trigger squeeze, and follow through, all need major improvements.

1. Grip: pressure points must be consistent, with front and back pressure application only. no sideways pressure.
2. Breathing: break the shot within 6-7 seconds of holding breath (inhale generously, then exhale about 70-80%, hold 20-30% air in your lungs, break shot within 6-7 seconds)
3. Sight picture: sights must be properly aligned, left right gap, top of all sights at same level, and target must be acquired similarly in all shots
4. Focus on front sight: let the rear sights and the target blur out a bit. Call your shots i.e you must know where the sights were when the shot broke, which should indicate where the bullet has impacted, instead of looking through the scope!
5. Trigger squeeze: remember, squeeze, not pull. use the same position of finger on the same position of trigger. squeeze like you would squeeze a lemon
6. Follow through: google it up!

Being consistent is very important in above. Repeatability of basics, in the same manner, over and over again, will ensure better groups.

Study the shooters wheel of misfortune. Compare it with your target. Grip errors, anticipation, flinch, jerking trigger, all will be very clear. I would advise to shoot with the Kadet single hand for few weeks, and the CZ only strong hand.
We can discuss all this better at the range if you have studied, observed/gone through this a few times.
Not only for reprobate brother, this is a fundamental advice for all shooter who are trying to excel in this skill. Some of these one liner advices may look simple but there are many articles given on each one of them in the Shooting Technique section. I would like to say to those members who are trying to improve their shooting skills that advice (on forum or on the range) by senior members is one thing and a good one too, however, their is no shortcut to reading the subject in detail. Just look at Saif, he is a shooter par excellence but still trying to find out his mistakes by reading the relevant material and then trying to apply it on ground. There is no shortcut in shooting I would say (well their is no short cut in anything if you are trying to attain excellence :mrgreen: )

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 Post subject: Re: reprobate's learning curve

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cz tactical sports
15 yds
2 handed
50 rounds chinese red box
Image

same gun
25 meters
2 hands
31 rounds

Image

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CZ 75 Compact Shadow Line
CZ 75 B SS
CZ 75 Kadet 2
Dan Wesson VBOB
Sig Sauer X5 Black and White
Sig Sauer X Short Riviera
Walther LP400
Anschutz 1416
Maroochi Zero3
POF 4 (semiauto MP5K)
Baikal Makarov SS
Taurus 941 22 Mag


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 Post subject: Re: reprobate's learning curve

Marksman

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trying to follow saif sahib's advice, points 1 and 2 were the ones i tried to focus on as had never done that, point 3 to 5 trying to improve.
follow through ? havent a clue :)

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CZ 75 Compact Shadow Line
CZ 75 B SS
CZ 75 Kadet 2
Dan Wesson VBOB
Sig Sauer X5 Black and White
Sig Sauer X Short Riviera
Walther LP400
Anschutz 1416
Maroochi Zero3
POF 4 (semiauto MP5K)
Baikal Makarov SS
Taurus 941 22 Mag


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 Post subject: Re: reprobate's learning curve

Marksman

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i feel i am improving
:)
cz TS
15 mtrs
2 hands
Image

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CZ 75 Compact Shadow Line
CZ 75 B SS
CZ 75 Kadet 2
Dan Wesson VBOB
Sig Sauer X5 Black and White
Sig Sauer X Short Riviera
Walther LP400
Anschutz 1416
Maroochi Zero3
POF 4 (semiauto MP5K)
Baikal Makarov SS
Taurus 941 22 Mag


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 Post subject: Re: reprobate's learning curve

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Indeed you are. :text-bravo: Keep practicing bro :)

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 Post subject: Re: reprobate's learning curve

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Have you considered moving to 25Ms? This would magnify the mistakes you're making and would help you further refine your technique.

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Bolt actions speak louder than words

Sometimes adding 175 grains of boat-tailed diplomacy speeds up Peace Talks


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 Post subject: Re: reprobate's learning curve

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Beautiful scores bro. Well done. I agree you should move to 25 M.

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 Post subject: Re: reprobate's learning curve

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thank you :)
shall move to 25 as advised from this saturday.
wanted to practice for the upcoming tourney, which is 15 mtrs... first sunday of feb. wish me luck !

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CZ 75 Compact Shadow Line
CZ 75 B SS
CZ 75 Kadet 2
Dan Wesson VBOB
Sig Sauer X5 Black and White
Sig Sauer X Short Riviera
Walther LP400
Anschutz 1416
Maroochi Zero3
POF 4 (semiauto MP5K)
Baikal Makarov SS
Taurus 941 22 Mag


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 Post subject: Re: reprobate's learning curve

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Nice shooting.
I would advise to have at least two more sessions at 15mtrs. There are some errors which need working on such as flinching, as well as grip/trigger issues. Try to get all the shots within black and 8 ring, as this means 5 or 6 at 25mtrs, and get your confidence higher. Then move to 25mtrs. By doing this, you would know that you can shoot good at 15mtrs. You just need to improve in 25mtr shooting. We would not want you to go back and forth between 15 and 25 meters due to confidence issues.
When I got TS 3 yrs ago, I first had to go back to 15mtrs to get used to the weapon and to get my confidence higher with this weapon although I was shooting 175/200 at 25 mtrs with my Shadow and Duty. When I was sure that I was used to the weapon (trigger, grip etc), I switched back to 25mtrs, and did not look back.

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A punch is necessary.

(Great Boxer Muhammad Ali).


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 Post subject: Re: reprobate's learning curve

Marksman

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thank you for your advice saif sahib,
i shall work on it.
i have noticed that the gripping advice you gave above is very helpful and no one had told me that before. i am working on my breathing as well, and of course my trigger :)
i have noticed that i am spending more time on the range now AND using less ammo AND enjoying myself more.

_________________
CZ 75 Compact Shadow Line
CZ 75 B SS
CZ 75 Kadet 2
Dan Wesson VBOB
Sig Sauer X5 Black and White
Sig Sauer X Short Riviera
Walther LP400
Anschutz 1416
Maroochi Zero3
POF 4 (semiauto MP5K)
Baikal Makarov SS
Taurus 941 22 Mag


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 Post subject: Re: reprobate's learning curve

Marksman

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Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:25 pm
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Location: Karachi, Pakistan
today's session
cz 75 ts
15 yards

me :)

Image

Image

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CZ 75 Compact Shadow Line
CZ 75 B SS
CZ 75 Kadet 2
Dan Wesson VBOB
Sig Sauer X5 Black and White
Sig Sauer X Short Riviera
Walther LP400
Anschutz 1416
Maroochi Zero3
POF 4 (semiauto MP5K)
Baikal Makarov SS
Taurus 941 22 Mag


Last edited by reprobate on Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: reprobate's learning curve

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Pics no more visible to me now but I could see them 10 mintues back :confusion-questionmarks: :confusion-questionmarks:

Very good shooting brother. IMHO, your shooting will further improve if you keep the weight of your body a little forward, instead of leaning slightly backwards.

Best regards

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 Post subject: Re: reprobate's learning curve

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pics still there.
bhai shall try... but ' toondh ' phans jati hay hehehe

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CZ 75 Compact Shadow Line
CZ 75 B SS
CZ 75 Kadet 2
Dan Wesson VBOB
Sig Sauer X5 Black and White
Sig Sauer X Short Riviera
Walther LP400
Anschutz 1416
Maroochi Zero3
POF 4 (semiauto MP5K)
Baikal Makarov SS
Taurus 941 22 Mag


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 Post subject: Re: reprobate's learning curve

Marksman

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ohhh pics gone ??

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CZ 75 Compact Shadow Line
CZ 75 B SS
CZ 75 Kadet 2
Dan Wesson VBOB
Sig Sauer X5 Black and White
Sig Sauer X Short Riviera
Walther LP400
Anschutz 1416
Maroochi Zero3
POF 4 (semiauto MP5K)
Baikal Makarov SS
Taurus 941 22 Mag


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 Post subject: Re: reprobate's learning curve

Marksman

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they are still there on photopucket ???

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CZ 75 Compact Shadow Line
CZ 75 B SS
CZ 75 Kadet 2
Dan Wesson VBOB
Sig Sauer X5 Black and White
Sig Sauer X Short Riviera
Walther LP400
Anschutz 1416
Maroochi Zero3
POF 4 (semiauto MP5K)
Baikal Makarov SS
Taurus 941 22 Mag


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 Post subject: Re: reprobate's learning curve

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Pics are visible to me. Very nice shooting Repro. Time to move on to 25m.

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Bolt actions speak louder than words

Sometimes adding 175 grains of boat-tailed diplomacy speeds up Peace Talks


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 Post subject: Re: reprobate's learning curve

Marksman

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thank you SA, wish me luck for next sunday

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CZ 75 Compact Shadow Line
CZ 75 B SS
CZ 75 Kadet 2
Dan Wesson VBOB
Sig Sauer X5 Black and White
Sig Sauer X Short Riviera
Walther LP400
Anschutz 1416
Maroochi Zero3
POF 4 (semiauto MP5K)
Baikal Makarov SS
Taurus 941 22 Mag


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 Post subject: Re: reprobate's learning curve

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reprobate wrote:
bhai shall try... but ' toondh ' phans jati hay hehehe
Don't bother about toondh. Just keep the left foot slightly forward and keep a slight bend in your elbows. That might do the trick. :D

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 Post subject: Re: reprobate's learning curve

Marksman

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ok, shall update saturday. thanks

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CZ 75 Compact Shadow Line
CZ 75 B SS
CZ 75 Kadet 2
Dan Wesson VBOB
Sig Sauer X5 Black and White
Sig Sauer X Short Riviera
Walther LP400
Anschutz 1416
Maroochi Zero3
POF 4 (semiauto MP5K)
Baikal Makarov SS
Taurus 941 22 Mag


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 Post subject: Re: reprobate's learning curve

Marksman

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Location: Karachi, Pakistan
today's session
cz ts
15 yds
chinese red box

1st target
Image
imag

2nd target
Image
pc screenshot

last target
Image
how to take a screen shot

_________________
CZ 75 Compact Shadow Line
CZ 75 B SS
CZ 75 Kadet 2
Dan Wesson VBOB
Sig Sauer X5 Black and White
Sig Sauer X Short Riviera
Walther LP400
Anschutz 1416
Maroochi Zero3
POF 4 (semiauto MP5K)
Baikal Makarov SS
Taurus 941 22 Mag


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 Post subject: Re: reprobate's learning curve

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Very nice shooting Reprobate. Your concentration and focus seemed to be the best during the third session.

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Bolt actions speak louder than words

Sometimes adding 175 grains of boat-tailed diplomacy speeds up Peace Talks


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